Truth in online personals advertising

7th August 2008

Truth in online personals advertising

I’ve never much been attracted to tall, really slender guys. Most of the men I’ve dated tended to be broader and huskier in build. And out of some no doubt deep-seated psychological compulsion to piss off my conservative mother, half the guys I’ve dated have also been of non-Caucasian ethnicity and one was just two years younger than she. So, it came as somewhat of a surprise when the man I fell in love with and later married was not only the whitest white boy I’ve ever met (he doesn’t tan, he burns… bad), he was also so tall and skinny I could count his pronounced ribs at eye-level.

Love works in mysterious ways, as they say, but only if you give it a chance.

Savage Love advice columnist Dan Savage sent a lot of troll traffic my way last year, but I harbor no hard feelings and in fact, I still read his column. Outside of our views on weight, I find myself nodding my head in agreement with most else of what Dan writes, and I appreciate and admire the fact that he uses his bully pulpit to spread awareness of social justice issues. Shinobi recently expressed concerns about some of Dan’s weight-related comments, but I think his reply today to Fretting About Traumatic Situation Obsessively was fair and even considerate, given his dismal track record on issues of women and weight. Letter-writer FATSO met a woman online who was upfront with him that she is overweight, but sent FATSO older photos of her that did not accurately depict her current body weight. The two met in person and upon seeing that she was “huge,” FATSO “told her as politely as possible that [he] felt her pictures were misleading, that she was bigger than [he]expected, and that [he[ didn’t think it would work.” FATSO still felt like “total shit” for his actions and wrote in to Dan for validation that he isn’t a “bad person.” Dan agreed, and wrote “Misleading photos are unfair to the person misled—it places the person in an awkward position—and sets the sender up for emotionally devastating rejections.”

I don’t think there is ever a “polite” way of telling someone that you don’t find them attractive because they’re fat or look a certain way, and I don’t have to imagine the horror of that kind of situation because I’ve experienced it personally – you can read it here. The entire experience was very hurtful and almost turned me off to online dating completely, but it was also partly avoidable. In my case, the man I met never asked about my weight or intimated that it was remotely important, but I still sent a classic ‘fat girl head shot’ photo that had been taken about four years earlier when I was a good 60 pounds thinner. In my defense, I was very young and inexperienced with dating both online and off, and very insecure about my weight. Had I sent a more honest photo of myself initially, he most likely would have still rejected me, but it would have been through email and not in person and before I had invested so much of myself into a relationship that was never to be.

When I decided to give online dating a go many years later, my goal was to be so completely honest and transparent that I would turn guys off, not on (not that this stopped every lonely single man in Cincinnati from writing me). I was much thinner than when I first attempted online dating, but at 170-pounds, I was still fat by current cultural standards. So, in addition to making myself sound as geek-like and unattractive as possible, I specifically emphasized that I was looking for someone who would accept me as I am. I included a current photo and I screened respondents by the criteria they selected for their “perfect match.” If they specifically excluded any body type other than thin, athletic or average, I usually dismissed them. Although I recommend this kind of filter generally, it’s not always accurate. Brandon had included average-sized women in his search criteria, but specifically excluded fat women. When I called him out on this, he explained that it was because his first girlfriend was fat and very insecure about her body and her insecurities, in turn, affected their relationship. I gave him a free pass and as it turns out, he’s since become a big supporter of fat rights and body size acceptance.

I find it sad that FATSO didn’t give the woman in question a chance based on nothing more than her body weight. Whom and what FATSO finds sexually attractive is his own prerogative, of course, but had I met Brandon and told him, as politely as possible, that I felt his pictures were misleading, that he was taller and skinnier than I expected, and that I didn’t think it would work out based on nothing other than superficial and aesthetic qualities, I would have missed out on the love of my life.

If you were Dan or wrote a similar column, what advice would you have given to FATSO? Or, have you had a similar experience in online dating and/or advice to give to others looking for love online?

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1 On August 7th, 2008, fatgirlonadate

said:

I get myself all worked up about pictures and descriptions on online dating sites. Here’s the thing: I’m tall, and I’m hourglassy and as a result in pictures I generally look “chubby”… but in real life I am F-A-T - you’d never describe me as “a little plump” or whatever other euphemism folks want to try. Although I try not to mislead anyone, I’m so afraid that they will still be disappointed when they meet me.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

2 On August 7th, 2008, Katie

I think Dan’s advice was pretty good this time around. I feel that if someone sends photos that are truly not representative of their current look, then it’s not fair to blame the other person for being upset. Yes, he might have missed out on a connection with her, but his first impression of her was as someone who was dishonest with him. Not a good foot to start out on. And I say this as a fat woman who found the love of her life online - and gave him plenty of recent photos before we met!

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

3 On August 7th, 2008, Rachel

Katie - The very first man I met online did a similar thing to me. He sent me old photos of himself and completely misrepresented himself as an I.T professional, etc… Not only was he NOT the professional he said he was, he also looked very different from his photos. And I’m not just talking about balding and weight here, he didn’t even have good basic hygiene. I felt very deceived and not the slightest bit attracted to him, so I can understand FATSO’s feelings. But on the flip side, as FGOAD points out, photos can be more flattering than reality. Plus, the woman did tell FATSO she was overweight. I just assumed the photos she sent him were older based on his letter, but maybe they were recent, in which case, FATSO is a boob for meeting her.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

4 On August 7th, 2008, Shinobi

I too often agree with Dan Savage’s advice. (Which is why the whole confirmation bias thing bugged me.)

I think that he was mostly right here. I do know a friend of a friend who recently met someone on Craigslists “strictly platonic” with the intention of being platonic friends. They e-mailed, chatted, and eventually went to see a play. He didn’t even stay through the second act after he saw what she looked like.

That guy missed out on knowing one of the funnest and funniest girls I am aquainted with! (She’s so cool I’m afraid she wont actually want to be my friend because I’m so lame.)

I think it’s totally cool to not want to date someone you aren’t attracted to. But to not want to be platonic friends with someone because they are fat?

It is things like that that make me question whether people can truly evaluate who they are attracted to without applying social standards to their own judgments.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

5 On August 7th, 2008, devil

I don’t think someone’s a complete jerk if they just don’t care for a particular physical type. It would be nice if they didn’t say “No fat chicks” or something equally mean, though. Couldn’t they just state that they prefer a slender build (or whatever)?

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

6 On August 7th, 2008, Stephanie

Hm. I’m not sure. On the one hand, there’s the fact that she did misrepresent herself, but we don’t really know by how much (see FGOAD’s comment; also see the fact that he could be whining about what isn’t really that big a difference — what’s ‘huge’? I know people who make ME look huge, and I’m pretty smallish). On the other hand, we have a society in which men are still generally trained to think that they deserve Julia Roberts or Maggie Gyllenhaal for a girlfriend, even if they’re Comic Store Guy. (Not really dissing guys — most of them get over it — but some don’t.)

So I’m glad he at least tried to be polite and is feeling remorse over it, and I hope she’s realized that she needs to be a little more honest in her online dating profiles . . . but I don’t have enough information to make a final judgment. (’Cause, you know, people so care about my final judgments.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

7 On August 7th, 2008, SugarLeigh

For a while, when I was single and annoyed with the entire courtship process, I kept asking my folks to just arrange a marriage for me, “preferably to a rock.” It’s funny, it seems like there would be more eligible people in the world, who are looking for each other, and with all the bloody dating sites and the ability to search in different towns, states, or even countries, why the HECK can’t any of them seem to FIND one another?! Problem is, all the bullies and just plain people you’ve got nothing in common with are looking in the same spots as everybody else. So I can’t figure out if people like me can’t find other people like me because there’s too many others all spread out far and wide, or not enough to go around.

Now I have a beau and things are mostly good, with rocky places. The death of a mutual friend brought us together, oddly. But if things don’t work out with us, I don’t think I could ever bring myself to date online again. I learned most of what I know about “warning signs for creeps” the hard way from online dating. Ugh.

I think FATSO and his/her prospective date are lucky that’s the only piece of hurt and confusion there was. My experiences with the online dating scene have NOT been good… I think things might be better now in that sense because many more people are seeing it as acceptable so it’s now a wider playing field, and of course I know more, but I’d still be hesitant.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

8 On August 7th, 2008, emi

I don’t think there’s a good way to tell someone you’re not attracted to them, but some ways are certainly better than others. If I put an online ad up, I’d include a line like, “My body gravitates towards women who are taller than I am (so, 5′6″ or taller)”, somewhere in the vicinity of a size 8-14, and somewhere in the sorta-butch, androgynous, or low-maintenance femme range. It’s very rare that I’m attracted to women who are shorter or thinner than I am or are very femme.” I think that puts my preferences out there, and if someone wants to meet who doesn’t fit that, fine, but then they’re warned if it turns out that I’m not attracted to them. In theory, I’m absolutely willing to date someone who is 5′2″, 90 pounds, and very feminine, but in reality, I’m probably not attracted to that woman.

I would also send a recent full body photo of myself. I understand that I’m not everyone’s type, and that’s okay.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

9 On August 7th, 2008, Julie

I’m a serial blind dater, and this column really spoke to me. I used to be very coy about the fact that I’m overweight–I’d sneak it in once I was already communicating with someone via e-mail. This seldom resulted in any kind of successful relationship. These days I am as straightforward as possible in my photographs (I have the head shot, of course, but also a full-body picture that shows every bump and curve). I also include a description of my body type in my profile that is as honest as I can muster.

I, too, screen out anyone who specifies only “about average,” “slender,” and “athletic” unless their initial e-mail really impresses me. But I agree with you–sometimes you have to give people a break. We often think we know what we’re looking for, but don’t know it until we see it.

Two things about FATSO and honesty in online dating: first, why not be honest? I don’t want to be with anyone who doesn’t love me precisely the way I am. If I have to lie to attract him, not only am I debasing myself, I’m making it clear to him that I’m not secure enough about my appearance to simply tell the truth. I can’t possible expect a relationship to be successful if it is founded in any type of deception. Second, if one isn’t willing to be honest, then one shouldn’t be terribly surprised if they’re called on it. It hurts like hell to find out that somebody didn’t like you because of your size. But if you’d told the truth about it to begin with, you wouldn’t have gotten your hopes up, met with the guy, and had your feelings hurt.

I don’t give up on online dating because, for me, it’s the best way to connect with people my own age. But I acknowledge that being upfront and truthful is the only way to play it. Learned that the hard way!

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

10 On August 7th, 2008, Rachel

On the other hand, we have a society in which men are still generally trained to think that they deserve Julia Roberts or Maggie Gyllenhaal for a girlfriend, even if they’re Comic Store Guy.

Ha! I was trying to explain this very concept to my mother the other night. My older brother is a average-looking, bigger guy who always tends to go for the Barbie doll-looking kind of women. He also makes a lot of money. I mean, A LOT of money that he is all too willing to lavish on the object of his affections. The last two girls he’s dated have been really beautiful, but they’ve used him for his money and he’s been left really hurt by this. Not all beautiful women are like this, of course, but I also think that you usually end up with a partner who is equivalent to you in the area of looks. Yet my brother refuses to ‘lower his standards’ and consider women who are even slightly overweight or not strikingly beautiful. I say this isn’t a lowering of standards as it is having realistic standards.

In my brother’s defense, my mother feels that this tendency isn’t so much because he feels he “deserves” a supermodel kind of woman, but rather that he’s really insecure about himself and when he lands a girl like this, even if it is because he’s rich, it’s a big boost to his self-esteem.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

11 On August 7th, 2008, Em

I’d answer your question, but WOW, his first answer on that page is so full of shit I can’t bring myself to read any more. “All women are bisexual, it’s science!”

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

12 On August 7th, 2008, Cindy

What would I tell FATSO?

Stop dating all together.

Why? Because when we’re trying to make ourselves more attractive all around to another person for the dating market, we tend to edit all sorts of things out of the *real* picture. In most cases, I don’t think people are trying to deceive. They just want to present themselves in the best light possible. It’s only after some stability is achieved that the less attractive stuff comes out. I’m chronicly, pathologically late. My girlfriend has minor issues with halitosis and is a crankasaurus. But we’re both decent people who’ve chosen each other as lovers and companions every day for the last 12 years.

Dating is not about getting and KEEPING the best marketing possible. It’s about making a connection with a person with whom you might one day choose to build a life. If all you want is a person who never ever changes, you shouldn’t date seriously.

Hugh Heffner has made a life doing that, hasn’t he. He’s a dirty old goat, but he knows who he is: a man who can’t handle being with a woman long enough to see her age past 24.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

13 On August 7th, 2008, Cindy

Erni,

I find beauty in all sorts, but the old glands only ever twitch for a butch girl. God I love butch girls. I chat up a femme, and, well, nothin’.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

14 On August 7th, 2008, Stef

Of course it’s best to be honest in describing yourself when dating online, but in my experience, sending recent photos is no guarantee of acceptance. Photos don’t always do a good job of depicting how a person looks, and photos can’t transmit whatever that ineffable chemistry is that determines whether two people are attracted to each other.

It’s fine to use the Internet to set up dates with people but don’t get your hopes up until you meet them in person.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

15 On August 7th, 2008, Stephanie

I also think that you usually end up with a partner who is equivalent to you in the area of looks.

Yeah, generally speaking, both psychology/sociology and conventional wisdom agree. Also Dr. House. (Last episode of the first season he said something like, “10s marry 10s, 7s marry 7s, 3s marry 3s– what are you doing with him?”)

My poor geek fiance has informed me that there’s also an unfortunate idea floating around in the geek world that all the guys have to do is find a 10 who thinks she’s a 3 (it’s presumed these guys are 3s) and they’re set for life. (It should be pointed out that he recognizes this for the ridiculousness it is.)

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

16 On August 7th, 2008, Meowser

Let’s put it this way. If I was dating again, and a guy liked my profile enough to respond to it, I’m not going to put much stock in what his “body specifications” are on his profile, unless it’s obvious that he’s just bomb-dropping profiles at random like a Viagra spammer without actually reading any of them. Because I have never minced words in any profile on exactly what size I am, I always provide accurate full-body shots of me either on the profile or at request, I’m going to assume that my size is not a problem for him. Of course, it won’t take long to find out whether he’s seriously interested in me or whether he just thinks fat women are easy lays. (Not that there’s anything wrong with a quick roll in the hay, but I’d rather it be with someone who’s not holding his nose while doing it.)

OTOH, I’m certainly not going to answer someone’s profile if he’s screening out fat women. Why bother?

As for this letter to Savage, it does not seem to me that this woman ever claimed to be slender, and anyway, what’s his definition of “huge”? Maybe it’s 140 pounds, in which case he’s a hunka hunka burning dickcheese, far as I’m concerned.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

17 On August 7th, 2008, Bree

I have not done online dating because quite honestly, I don’t think there are many men out there who would consider a 300 lb. and up woman for a girlfriend, unless I post a picture at a site exclusively geared to guys who prefer much larger women and vice-versa. However, the times I have had men approach me, they are skinny as a rail and at least a good 20 years or more older than me. I don’t mind skinny men. Hell, at the rate I’m going, just breathing looks good right now.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

18 On August 7th, 2008, julie

Hm, I also put a note in platonic only, on Craigslist, looking for people who liked to hike and smoke weed (sorry, it’s hardly illegal here in SF), and I mentioned that I was late 30s F, and I got mostly guys who wanted no part of me when I told them I was chubby (so they would recognize me). However, I did meet one very nice woman who is taking the dog and I hiking tomorrow. These guys suck, I put it in PLATONIC, they’re such fatophobes that they can’t walk for 30 minutes? Losers.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

19 On August 7th, 2008, Terri Weitze

Anyone participating in personals (online or not) for dating, needs to be absolutely honest about their appearance. By not doing so, you are in a way saying that you expect to not be found attractive based on how you currently look. My best luck with personals was when I started it “Fat, Happy and definitely not dumb” I wanted the person responding to know I was fat, and that I was happy with myself. And I got some good responses. And I sent out current photos of myself - full body. Hey, I was looking for someone to love me as I am … and that’s what I eventually found.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

20 On August 7th, 2008, Jessie

I have many friends that have talked to me about the “kind of women” they’re attracted to. I have always said that if that is what they find attractive, then by all means, that is what they should pursue. The fat acceptance movement is not supposed to be about forcing men to like chubby chicks and being angry when they don’t, it’s about challenging the open discrimination of larger people. I think that, over time, that will lead to people evaluating what they like verses the media, but that’s not something we can rant and rave about.

Plus, I think Savage is right. Misrepresenting yourself is wrong and the reader was obviously not angry about the “fat” but just not attracted to the woman. At least that was the intention of the e-mail. Savage has always been a supporter of “like what you like” philosophy which is all we can ask for when jerks like Mr. Ted from the previous post, exist. .

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

21 On August 7th, 2008, Mari

But how can we really be honest? If someone online meets us and they ask, are you having a bad day and you say yes, does that mean they should write you off because you didn’t give the right answer. Just today, I had a guy ask me for my number and I wasn’t interested, so I lied and said that I was married, even though I’m not. Does that make me a bad person?

I mean, I just went on the Bob Marks astrology forum, upset that their predictions hadn’t come true, only to be told that my chances of finding a soulmate weren’t great. How truthful are we supposed to be? I’m a young, single, fat black girl and online dating for me has been hello, hello, how are you, fine, what’s going on, do you have any other (re: naked) pictures of yourself. I’ve been all over the place and found that online dating fulfills a fantasy but when it’s time for ACTION, the dead sea will part before anything happens.

I consider myself a very open-minded person but I’m still old-fashioned in the sense that I believe that people have a better chance meeting someone in person. Now, if and when I do meet Mr. Right, I hope that I can prove the trolls wrong: Love for a fat girl is possible!

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

22 On August 7th, 2008, Mari

I’m just now reading your comments on Dan Savage. I think he’s Mr. Madonna, you know? I think he says these things to get a reaction out of people or because he knows it’s going to create controversy. He’s not someone to be won overnight but there’s hope.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 8:00 pm

23 On August 7th, 2008, Rachel

Mari: Yeah, my hubby and I have also discussed this. His column depends on him having a certain kind of persona that he probably doesn’t exhibit as much in real life.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

24 On August 7th, 2008, bigmovesbabe

I got together with my husband through a craiglist ad I posted to “casual encounters”, for which I used the header “Poly, Pierced, and Plush”. Now, as a tall, muscular apple-y girl, “plush” doesn’t fully convey the wonder that is me, but I felt it captured enough, being in the header and all. We corresponded for a week or two before I sent a photo, which was a recent promo photo of me in all my butch food-writer glory, wearing an apron and balancing a rolling pin on my head and grinning like a grinning fool. It was the only photo I had on hand that I though caught me smiling really well. I dithered about the photo for a long time, but later–on our first (play)date–I realized that I had really snared him with my dirty, detailed missives, and that appearances were a very distant second, for both of us, to the required intelligence and perviness level.

He loves me all around now, and me? I don’t know if I would have gone for it, if he had told me *exactly* how short he was (5′2″ to my 5′10″), but damn, I’m sure glad I did.

I do think photos should be accurate, and I also think people jump on them way too quickly to convey any damn thing other than someone knows how to tilt her head just right, or someone is leaning up against a car that isn’t really theirs.

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

25 On August 7th, 2008, Sherie S

I think the guy is a jerk! It is one of my pet peeves that people can not have a simple cup of coffee with someone and let them down gracefully. If you are going to do online dating, it is a skill one should learn. Once I met this great firefighter buy putting out an ad and INSISTING they take their chances and meet sight unseen. That is my test! He didn’t have to tell her she was too big for him. He could have just chatted for 15 minutes and said he didn’t feel any chemistry. I have been in that situation too, where I just knew there was nothing there. I just told them politely but firmly we weren’t each others types.

As for photos, not everyone has a digital camera. I have only two pictures online, both came to me by chance. They are flattering and 3 years old. In one ad I put down I am fat, I put down my turn offs are weight obsession! My turn ons are body acceptance. Still, I got men responding who are health and fitness buffs. I think because in one pic the sun does things with my hair and makes it look really blonde and that is all they see. (One guy said as much!) I never answer the ads if they put fitness as a priority but I can’t tell you how much it ticks me off. Cause I know if I did meet them, they would be jerks and say something. But whose fault is it they can’t read?

posted on August 7th, 2008 at 11:42 pm

26 On August 8th, 2008, Jackie

I think alot of people involved with online dating, give too much emphasis on looks. Almost everyone I’ve talked to who were in a good relationship, have said they’ve found love when they weren’t looking for it. The best thing to do is try to get yourself out in society, or in a group of people with common interests. You might meet someone you really get along with and hit it off, without looks being a part of the equation.

There was a story I saw on Dr. Phil about a very similar situation. This extremely egotistical guy, told a woman that she “needs to go to the gym” and that “she’d give him free training since he’s a personal trainer.” The guy claimed he was Ivy League, could bench over 300 pounds, ect ect.. It would be obvious to most people that the guy didn’t need a date, he already was plenty in love with himself.

A lot of people also believe that because they’re on the internet, they can hide behind the internet and be a jerk. This of course is true with trolls, and the like. When you meet someone in person, they’re in a position where they have to act civil, if it’s a public area. In other words, for most cases, if someone wants to tell you off in public they have to get to know you first before they do it.

posted on August 8th, 2008 at 6:21 am

27 On August 8th, 2008, Emerald

Hmm. Now, I’ve been involved with one dating agency, to whom I was totally honest about my weight (bear in mind that I was maybe 145 back then - it was in my late teens/early 20s - but very much more self-conscious about my weight than now, and thought of myself as ‘chunky’). I only recall a head and shoulders photo, so that wasn’t an issue. However, it would have said ‘plump’ on my profile because that was what I put.

I think the bigger problem was the kind of expectations the guys themselves had. Several, although they didn’t exactly turn tail and run in the other direction, came right out and said I was ‘bigger than they’d expected’ in a kind of derogatory way. (At least one found me much younger than the range of women he’d asked to meet, and there were other mismatches that made me suspect this might have been a problem with the actual agency. They had boxes to check for all that stuff, but exactly what criteria they were matching them on, I don’t know.)

The biggie was the man I eventually married. He said nothing at all about my weight at the time, but it later - much later - transpired that he’d wanted someone much thinner, but on meeting me had decided I’d ‘do’ and that well, he could always badger me to lose the weight. I ended that marriage six years later, about 25lb fatter and a lot wiser. (I gather he also would have preferred a blonde, which, my penchant for weird hair colors notwithstanding, I am unlikely to ever become. Go figure. His mother had also wanted an Irish Catholic, of which I am neither, but that’s a whole other story.)

I met my second husband through a small ad, we both sent recent photos (I found mine a few weeks back - I had the most bizarre perm…ah, happy days), and we were both totally up-front about what we preferred. Which, fortunately, was each other.

I agree that submitting an old photo could be misleading (although the woman was verbally honest)…BUT on the other side, if someone is going to find the other person’s body size (or, for that matter, any personal characteristic) to be a total barrier to a relationship, I for one would prefer it if they were upfront about that too. Honesty needs to be on both sides.

posted on August 8th, 2008 at 7:21 am

28 On August 8th, 2008, Rosa

I used to work at the newspaper when they ran personals in paper, and every week I’d go through putting slash through all the men seeking women ads where the man asked for thin, slender, “proportional” or whatever, and a circle around any ad where the man specified “athletic” but had no athletic hobbies listed.

It was always at *least* half the ads.

On the other side, half the women seeking men ads specified heights of at least 5′10″.

It seems at that point that people aren’t even putting in their own preferences, they’re just using some sort of Barbie/Ken template that may not even match their own desires.

posted on August 8th, 2008 at 9:39 am

29 On August 8th, 2008, Facultades

FATSO could have avoided acting like a jerk (dislike only based on looks are jerk behavior in my book) if he had told the date that he wouldn’t date any with an BMI/weight over [insert random number her]. So one could conlude that he was misleading when he was not up front about how shallow he was…

posted on August 8th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

30 On August 8th, 2008, Lil

@11 - *snorfle!* Well, I remember hearing somewhere that women do have a higher tendency for being more open to same-sex fooling about than men are. But that doesn’t translate to ‘all women are teh BI!’. Drunken groping =/= lifestyle choice (or, at least, one would HOPE not).

And as for what I would do if I were in FATSO’s position? I would have gone on the date with her and just gone with the flow. Nobody says you have to go and get freaking married to the person after one date. It’s not that huge of a commitment. Just go and have fun and try to get to know the person. I find that if I really like someone for who they ARE, then I’ll find them more and more attractive. ‘Cause I’ve had the reverse happen, too, with really attractive people who act like bastards and it makes them look unbearably horrible, to my eyes.

posted on August 8th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

31 On August 8th, 2008, Meowser

I agree that it’s one thing to meet someone, talk with them for a bit, and then go, “Nope, no chemistry,” and have that be the end of it. Chemistry is something that’s beyond conscious control; someone can have every quality you want “on paper” and still not do it for you.

However, if stupid-ass hateful stereotypes and unwarranted assumptions are what’s interfering with your ability to have chemistry with someone you could be having it with, that shit’s got to go. And for whatever reason, chemistry might not happen on the first date because of outside or internal distractions, so I used to allow three dates for it to happen unless I was really creeped out by someone right away. My ex-husband admitted that on our first date, he broke a tooth on the way over to meet me, but went on with the date anyway, so was a million miles away the first time we went out. But dates 2 and 3 did the trick.

But unless it’s obvious right away that the person is truly dangerous, I agree with Sherie; would it kill you to talk to that person for a couple of minutes? Learn something about them? Maybe even start a dialogue with them about why their picture doesn’t look like them? You don’t have to have anything to do with them after that.

posted on August 8th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

32 On August 9th, 2008, Meaghan

Oh Em Gee bigmovesbabe- I am 5′11″ and my long-term boyfriend is 5′4″ so it’s great to see someone in a similar situation, with an actual height difference…

I always see these articles online and in magazines about women ‘daring’ to date shorter men and it’s always like a 2 inch height difference! Like a 5′10″ woman dating a 5′8″ man is so courageous and breaking with society’s expectations. I mean, in our society it kind of is, but give me a break! I think all sorts of people could easily expand their dating pools (and meet some great, thoughtful, smart, interesting men and women) by simply tossing out all the requirements that aren’t their own, but are driven by ‘what might my friends think?’.

posted on August 9th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

33 On August 10th, 2008, Godless Heathen

It’s hard enough finding childfree non-smoking non-drinkers, I don’t think I’d weed out people based on the body type their profile specifies. I’m not in the market, but I keep an eye on dating sites, and the matching algorithm for most of them has some serious flaws. I think it’s more important to be really, honestly upfront about who you are and what you’re looking for, that way people will have a better idea what they’re getting.

My big fear is that I’d attract fat admirers and chubby chasers. The only fat on me that I feel matters is between my ears, I wouldn’t want someone who’d be upset if I didn’t measure up to their ideal of fatness.

posted on August 10th, 2008 at 12:35 am

34 On August 11th, 2008, Bri

I don’t read Dan Savage but I can comment on dating sites etc online. I met my husband online. I know for sure that I made certain any one I talked to via those sites knew I was fat. In fact, I think I made out I was fatter than I am (not totally intentionally). My now husband sent me a picture of himself that wasn’t exactly flattering. I met up with him anyway. We got married 10 1/2 months later. Are women more open to relationships with fat men than men are with fat women? Food for thought…

posted on August 11th, 2008 at 5:38 am

35 On August 17th, 2008, Mickey

I always make sure to use recent pictures, am upfront about my body type and body-type preferences (I believe my gk2gk.com profile says something like: “Overweight is not a problem as long as you love your body and take care in your appearance. I’m fat and fabulous, and you can be as well!” with regards to women, and explicitly states that I prefer men who, by virtue of height, weight, or both, make me feel smaller by comparison, which ain’t easy since I’m 5′8″ and about 250lbs.). I also find, now that I’m in a more advanced age, that people (of either sex) who don’t post recent photos, or photos at all, or fairly flattering photos on dating sites generally have more self-esteem issues than I want to deal with in someone I’m considering dating.

posted on August 17th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

36 On August 18th, 2008, Lindeseig

I’ve been on both ends of this. When I was much heavier than I am now (by about 30 pounds or so), I had a guy I met online blow me off because he saw me as physically repulsive, letting me know in no uncertain terms that he was disgusted to be seen in public with me. With that said, there are men I met online whom I blew off for very superficial reasons (mostly pertaining to height/size as I feel very self-conscious with a much thinner man regardless of what he thinks of my body, even though I found myself married to one for two years.)

At this point, when I find myself dating online again, I’m being more open about where I stand on the issue. When I saw one guy listing “overweight” as a disqualifier, I stopped talking to him. I don’t see anything wrong with my body, and am not in the mood to be classified as ugly, or to be pressured to drop down to a very unhealthy size. He wants super thin, he can find it elsewhere. I’m also getting over my own biases and dating men whom I find appealing regardless of what I would have considered automatic physical disqualfiers.

Do I think the girl should have been more up front? Yes, it would have saved her a lot of grief in the end, and I think FATSO handled the situation as best he could - explaining how he felt without going out of the way to be hurtful. I’m a regular Savage Love reader, and it struck me that the bulk of his problem was that she misrepresented herself period - not what aspect of herself was misrepresented.

posted on August 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am