10 Questions for Kristin ‘Lou’ Herout

28th April 2008

10 Questions for Kristin ‘Lou’ Herout

posted in Arts and Music, Body Image, Body-Affirming, Fashion, Interviews, Pop Culture |

“Voluptuous women needed… for student photography project (no worries, no nudity). If you’re in your 20’s, got real booty, boobs or hips, please help me out!”

So read an advertisement posted by communication graduate student Kristin ‘Lou’ Herout last fall throughout buildings on her Northern Illinois University campus.

The 23-year-old graduate student and professional photographer replicated advertisements from Cosmopolitan, Elle and other women’s fashion magazines using not industry standard size-zero models, but rather “curvy” and “realistic” women to accompany a scholarly paper on the subject. “Basically, I just want people to see what it would be like if plus-size models were represented similarly to slim models,” said Herout.

Click to see larger resolution image

The Dekalb, Ill. native boasts her own photography company startup, K Lou Photography, and teaches courses as a teacher’s assistant at NIU on audio and production. She’s also a photographer for one of Chicago’s premiere wedding photography companies, Essence Photography and Video. I caught up with Herout as she prepares to move to San Francisco this summer to complete her master’s degree in photography at the Academy of Art University to talk about her provocative project.

Describe the scope of your photography project.

I am hoping to replicate advertisements found in common women’s magazines such as Cosmopolitan, Vogue, Elle, and others, as closely as possible using actual plus-size women as my models. I plan on juxtaposing the original ad with my version of the ad when the project is displayed. I am hoping that this will show that I am interested in having plus-size women being represented just as thin women are represented, which, is incredibly unusual.

Did you have trouble finding women to participate? Did any of the women have an altered perception of themselves after seeing their photograph?

I did have trouble finding women to participate at first. Luckily my “voluptuous women wanted” posters caused quite a stir around campus and the school newspaper wrote a story about my project. From then on I received many calls. I think some girls were a little nervous about my motives and weren’t entirely comfortable with the ideal of modeling until they learned a little bit about my project.

Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to show any of the women their finished pictures in person because I am spending so much time on the project and trying to graduate, so I haven’t really gotten a chance to see their reactions. I have had a lot of people, including my photography professor commend my work, but I am really hoping that I will be able to have a gallery showing soon so that I can actually see people’s reactions. Also, being in the communication department, I have a friend who is an instructor here and is interested in working with me over the summer to do a study on people’s reactions to the pictures.

Your photography project is a supplement to a scholarly paper. What will the paper address?

My scholarly paper is a content analysis of the advertisements featured in Cosmopolitan magazine over time. Cosmo is one of the oldest women’s magazines – it has been in print since the 1880s, and started running ads in 1912. I studied the ads to see how the image of the ideal woman has changed through time. It was extremely interesting to see that the women progressively changed from large boned, round-faced, beautiful women to bone-protruding, thin women.

What are the differences in how a thin model is photographed and in how an average-size or plus-size model is portrayed in popular media?

Plus-size women on TV (which are more likely than not, actually average-size women) are treated very poorly. People are mean to them, men ignore them, and these women are oftentimes the recipients of “polite” suggestions to lose weight. It is extremely rare for any plus-size woman to be seen as a sexual being unless it is being portrayed as a joke. As stated in my paper, there is a “Wingman Training Manual” that is published by Maxim magazine that tells men how to keep their buddies from hooking up with a big woman when he gets drunk.

In my scholarly paper, I discuss the phenomenon of the plus-size bride; the bridal industry must represent plus-size women in some ads because the plus-size woman accounts for a large chunk of the market, but in an ad, the plus-size woman is treated very differently than her thinner counterpart. She is given a simpler dress, simpler background and loses the sexy mysteriousness that is common in haute-couture models. The plus-size girl wears a huge toothy smile, therefore there are different expectations for a woman of larger stature compared to a thinner model.

I think that campaigns such as the “Dove True Beauty Campaign” are commonly more hurtful than helpful. If this campaign, women are shown as being proud of who they are, great! But these women are average-size women; plus-size women are left out in the cold in this campaign. Also, these women still aren’t given the same attention as thin women: they aren’t shown as really sexy, they’re shown as being confident, despite their curves. They should be presented as being beautiful, sexy and proud, just as thin models are. Otherwise we are still making an exception for average-size women, instead of making them the norm.

Why do you think the current fashion trends are to portray images of ultra-thin women and girls?

Current fashion trends portray images of the ultra-thin because models like Twiggy in the 60s brought about a revolution that made extreme thinness a thing of beauty for the first time. Until then, extreme thinness was a symptom of being poor or sick, not a symbol of the high class. Now, in America, poor people are oftentimes overweight more often than those who have a lot of money. The cheapest foods available are commonly macaroni or grilled cheese, the poor can’t afford fresh fruits and vegetables, so there is a status symbol involved.

Also, in some ways it is just easier for designers to fit thin women than those who weigh more. Designers don’t want to have any hips, booty or other curves getting in the way of their work of art. When doing a runway show, designers don’t have to worry about any model fitting into any outfit because they are all the same size. Finally, we are currently living in a culture that sees fat as an ugly part of women’s bodies, and designers would prefer to make their product for beautiful women.

I would like to add here that men are not portrayed in the same way as women. Men’s bodies are valued less, so it is not uncommon to see an old, overweight, balding man as a character who is sexually attractive to a plethora of young thin women. When a woman gains weight, grows old, or has any imperfection, it doesn’t take long for her to be taken off the air.

How do you think current images of women in the media affect girls and women?

The lack of plus-size women in these ads leaves women feeling bad about themselves because they are unrepresented. In other words, the thin woman gets the guy, money, success, happiness and all the things that we are supposed to value as Americans, and any woman who does not fit the ideal is left out in the cold.

The current media images of super-thin girls lead everyone to be unhappy with their bodies. The fact is that all photos are manipulated, even the thinnest women have pictures that are altered. So not even the most beautiful and ideal women are good enough on their own to fit the current western standards of beauty. Everyone is left self-conscious. This is why eating disorders are becoming so prolific. I heard about a reporter that decided to go on a crash diet to see what it would be like, by the end of the study she was anorexic, and the community was applauding her weight loss (NPR). How backwards can we be?

Even those who don’t suffer from eating disorders are unhappy. When I was growing up, I had friends who were skinny and had no excess fat, but would stand around talking about how fat they are. I know of a professional dancer who is unhappy with her weight, and the list goes on.

It is long past time when we can all be happy with who we are physically, because, let’s face it, we live in a visual culture and no matter how beautiful we are on the inside, we’ll always be concerned about the first impression made by our physical self. Self-confidence can light up a room like physical beauty never can on its own.

What motivated you to begin this work?

This topic has been of interest to me for a long time, as a plus-size woman from a plus-size family, I’ve always been pushed to diet and lose weight, but the reality is that in order for some people to lose weight, the cost outweighs the benefits.

I’m tired of the media telling me that I should be ashamed of myself for how I am. I hate that the media makes it seem like only skinny people are beautiful and find love and happiness. It’s all a joke to me considering I have men who lust over me (and they’re not a very limited selection of men either). I hate that men are told that they should date only thin women and women are told that they can’t find love unless they are skinny.

I’m not going to lie and say that I wouldn’t want to be skinny, or that I haven’t let the media make me feel embarrassed about who I am, but if you let yourself get beyond the feeling that people look down on you for how you look, you can gain great amounts of confidence and be sexier than any woman in the room, even if you’re the biggest one in the room.

What are your thoughts now on dieting, weight and health?

I really feel that it’s ok to be overweight. I don’t think it’s ok to sacrifice your health or happiness for your weight. I would never let my weight keep me from being able to hike, ride my bike or walk my dog, but I’m ok with being a size-20 woman who can do all the things that she sets her mind to. I think that there are costs and benefits to dieting and sometimes we need to consider those before setting a very strict goal. Every time I try to lose, I end up gaining considerably when it’s all over. I lose weight best by creating inconveniences in my life that I have to deal with. For example, a couple years ago I lived about 4 blocks off campus, so I couldn’t get a parking pass, and I happened to live on the side of campus that was farthest away from all of my classes. Each week I ended up walking about 12 miles just to and from class. I plan on a similar situation when I move to San Francisco next year. I’d prefer to walk over public transportation, so I’ll probably just happen to lose weight rather that force it off.

I found that when I put my mind to it I can lose a lot of weight, but I become a mean and angry person. After all, I’m not unhappy with myself, I’m not extremely proud of my body but my body is not what defines me as a person. I am more concerned about my work and my studies than I am about my body. I feel that as long as my body doesn’t hold me back from doing the things that I want to do, I’m ok with it.

I have had a great idea for many years about how to lose weight. I haven’t come up with a name for the company, but the slogan would be “exercise in disguise.” People and families could participate in an array of fun activities that happen to put your body to work; like high ropes courses, kayaking, trapeze, gymnastics elements, trampolines, rock walls, all sorts of fun activities that promote wellness and problem solving but that wouldn’t seem like work. Feel free to steal this idea, anyone, I have too many things on plate to ever make it happen, but I think whoever would create this space would be doing a great service to Americans.

What do you hope to accomplish with your photography project?

As unrealistic as it sounds, I hope that my project would motivate designers and stores to represent plus-size women in their ads, being just as beautiful, just as sexy, just as flawless as skinny women are. Given how unrealistic that goal is, on the personal level, I would love for women to look at my images and feel inspired. They should feel that they can be like that beautiful woman in the picture and that beauty is not unattainable for them.

What advice would you give to the fashion industry on how to portray images of women in the media?

I think fair representation would be a great thing for the fashion industry. How much money are they losing on women who feel self-conscious and choose not to go shopping because of these issues? If women of average- and plus-sizes could feel comfortable being who they are, we would all be better off. I would hope, also, that the media would be willing to represent women and show them as sexy, beautiful and all the things that we consider to be feminine. Weight should not be the determining factor on whether or not a woman can be beautiful.

For more on Herout’s project, read here.

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This entry was posted on Monday, April 28th, 2008 at 1:04 pm and is filed under Arts and Music, Body Image, Body-Affirming, Fashion, Interviews, Pop Culture. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

1 On April 28th, 2008, thordora said:

All I can think when looking at those pictures is how much happier the “plus size” girls look! They’re beautiful, more than beautiful!

this is a great project.

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

2 On April 28th, 2008, vesta44 said:

It’s funny, but up until this post, I never thought much about why I don’t like commercials on tv and ads in magazines/newspapers, but it really is because they don’t show a wide variety of sizes in the women in these ads. I’m sorry, but if you want me to buy your product, you really need to give me a good reason to buy it. Showing it with a thin model, who I will never look like, is not going to convince me that if I buy X product, I’ll magically be that thin model (I’m fat, not stupid, in spite of the stereotype). I think that’s another reason I don’t watch television, other than the true crime stuff and the home improvement shows. Too many thin women, not enough average and/or fat women. Why should I watch a show that doesn’t have women like me in it, and when it does, it’s for comic relief or to make fun of fat women?
I wish Kristin Lou Herout all the success with this project, it’s sorely needed.

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

3 On April 28th, 2008, Rachel said:

Another thing I noticed about Lou’s photos: they spotlight black women. Flip through the pages of the magazines Lou studies and count how many models are white and how many are black or non-white. As one can surmise, whiteness predominates. So, the fact that Lou is including not only plus-size women in her project but also non-white women is to be commended.

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

4 On April 28th, 2008, Shinobi said:

I think it is interesting that the plus size women are smiling and the thin women are not. That is actually another way of treating average sized or larger women differently.

There was an article I read a few years back, I will see if I can find it, about how smiling can actually be a submissive or appeasing behavior. (Which makes me think of every time a random man on the street has ordered me to “smile”) That is why very expensive products do not portray their models smiling. The frown or subtle smirk implies status.

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

5 On April 28th, 2008, Rachel said:

Shinobi: Yeah, Lou mentions the smiling disparity specifically in her interview and paper. Smiling certainly makes someone appear less intimidating and can be used to promote mysteriousness and sex appeal. Not to mention, fat people smiling also adds to the “jolly fat person” stereotype.

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

6 On April 28th, 2008, Curvy women photographed like thin models » The Curvy Life said:

[...] The F-Word.org has a fabulous, in-depth interview with grad student/photographer Kristin “Lou” Herout who replicated high-fashion magazine ads with “real” women as part of a study of the way the image of the ideal woman has changed in modern times–”he women progressively changed from large boned, round-faced, beautiful women to bone-protruding, thin women. [...]

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 8:40 pm

7 On April 28th, 2008, curvy angela said:

Size inclusion and size diversity in fashion media is absolutely essential if we, as a culture, are ever going to move beyond body loathing. There is a communications theory called “Symbolic Interactionism” (Herbert Mead) that suggests that our sense of self comes from our perception of how we see ourselves reflected in the mirror of society. We imagine how we are seen by the eyes of the generalized “other” in all our roles, and we think that this is our true self. For fat women, we see our “smiling” selves in the mirror of media, we see ourselves as “jokes” in that mirror, but rarely do we see ourselves as fully sexy and sexual in that mirror. Thus, it is easy for a fat woman herself to lose her sexual identity, because those mirrors are blank to her.

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

8 On April 28th, 2008, Fat Girl said:

Amazing!! I love it to pieces!

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

9 On April 28th, 2008, cggril said:

Totally off topic (sorry rachel, feel free to delete):

I want to be vegetarian for ethical reasons but have difficulty being sure that I am, in fact, eating intuitively, if sometimes what I want is meat.
I have been wondering for awhile if you have any advice on this, or perhaps you simple naturally prefer not to eat meat. If you do have any such conflicts between your intuitive hunger and your love of animals. I’d love to hear how you resolve it.
It’s very difficult for me and I don’t want to feel deprived, to bring up the same guilt and “bad food” feelings we all know from dieting and disordered thinking about food…. But I really feel more comfortable not eating meat either.

Thank you so much for any advice and keep up the wonderful blog going

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 10:02 pm

10 On April 29th, 2008, Gemma said:

Rachel, I was just about to make a comment on the WOC in the sample images here.

I think this is a brilliant project!

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 5:17 am

11 On April 29th, 2008, Fauve said:

The women look beautiful and I truly wish I could see plus-size models in *regular* fashion magazines, and on-air in a much more positive way. That said, plus-size models are still *models*, (even the women chosen by Herout), meaning: they are young, beautiful and dewey-skinned, with curves that, while lush and wonderfully full, are in proportion to the rest of their bodies.
I write all the above to illustrate a point: plus-sized models can make me feel as invisible and diminished (and envious!) as the stick-thin models of Vogue, ect. More so, in fact, as I do not really like bodies that look skeletal. Nor do I wish to look skeletal. But I would love to look like one of Herout’s models.
I know I can’t have my cake and eat it too: fashion will always dictate that the young and lovely are our chosen images to see – full-figured or not. So I give Kudos to Herout, even as I shake my head over my own weakness of feeling so diminished when I look at (plus-sized and regular, skinny) models, even as I avidly seek out the magazines that feature them.

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 8:30 am

12 On April 29th, 2008, Rachel said:

Cggril: I am vegetarian also out of ethical and spiritual reasons, not because I don’t like the taste of meat. There are times when I wish I weren’t so damn ethical, because I really miss crab legs and shrimp, but such it is. Fortunately, there are lots of faux meat products: Morningstar Farms Grillers Prime tastes a lot like steak while their sausage and veggie crumbles we use for spaghetti sauces, taco filling, etc…; Quorn products taste a lot like chicken; and you can marinate tofu to have the same texture and similar taste to that of meat. So, it’s learning how to improvise and substitute when you have cravings.

For me though, learning about the meat industry and how animals are treated and abused has triumphed over my tastebuds. I see a steak on a plate, and I don’t think yum, I think animal carcass.

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 8:58 am

13 On April 29th, 2008, DiosaNegra1967 said:

Although this sounds like a wonderful project…I don’t mean to p*ss in anyone’s cornflakes here, but what about women over 30? I guess being fat/voluptuous/*insert euphemism here* and beautiful comes COMPLETELY to a halt after 30?

I wouldn’t think that would hold true for the size acceptance or FA movements…or does it? I’m not trolling or anything….just asking a valid question….

I understand that Ms. Herout is in her 20′s and so she may concentrate on women in her own age group….but it would be nice to see some plus-sized women over 30.

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

14 On April 29th, 2008, D said:

Thank you, Kristen, for also featuring women of color in your photographs! Your project also shows, intentionally or not, how the vast majority of models chosen for these advertisements are white. Where are the women of color?

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

15 On April 29th, 2008, Rachel said:

but what about women over 30?

Considering Herout drew her models from the university she attends classes at, I can see why there wouldn’t be too many under 30 models featured. And instead of insisting Herout show women above 30, why don’t you write to fashion magazines and insist they show women over 30?

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

16 On April 29th, 2008, Fat Man said:

Real men love women with nice soft round curves.

Bones are for dogs!!!

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

17 On April 29th, 2008, DiosaNegra1967 said:

Apologies if I offended you.

It was not my intent to criticize Ms. Herout or insist on her showing models over 30….and I have written to magazines (and websites) in the past, asking to include models of all ages.

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

18 On April 29th, 2008, Rachel said:

Okay – maybe it was just phrased wrong. I saw you as taking issue with Herout, who I see as making a remarkable first step in promoting size diversity among models. I think it just goes to show how very little diversity exists in the media.

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

19 On April 29th, 2008, i-geek said:

“Real men love women with nice soft round curves.

Bones are for dogs!!!”

Can we be FA without insulting thin women and the men/women who love them, please?

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

20 On April 29th, 2008, Fauve said:

I admire what Herout is doing. My conflicts, previously stated, are more my own personal baggage, to be honest. Still, the truly invisible women are the older ones, I think (even more than large women). Still, it’s great to see images of models who aren’t thin.

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

21 On April 29th, 2008, Rachel said:

Seriously, I’m WAY more tempted top buy the products featured in the ads with real women in them- particularly because I can see myself using/wearing the item!! WHY do advertizers not get this???

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

22 On April 29th, 2008, DiosaNegra1967 said:

Rachel: Why don’t advertisers not get us liking “real women” in the ads? I heard an answer to this before….ready?

“It gives the person purchasing the product something to aspire to…”

*giving side eye of death* (to advertisers, that is)

Makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever…..

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

23 On April 29th, 2008, DiosaNegra1967 said:

I almost forgot….I’ve also read that some “high-end” advertisers don’t want their products associated with “regular” people….

That sounds just like the old argument used for not casting people of color in commercials or print ads for high-end products. Think about it: You almost never saw a person of color advertising cars or even….dishwashing liquid until the late 70s or 80s….

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

24 On April 29th, 2008, Fat Man said:

I don’t pay attention to commercials on TV.

When they advertise the latest diet product, or exercise gimmick on TV, I change the channel or press the mute button so I done have to hear their bull crapola!

I only watch TV for The Science Fiction Channel, Spike TV, The History Channel, or the Discovery Channel.

I prefer to watch educational programming and good Science Fiction movies.

If TV had only sports, or fashion shows, I would toss my TV out of my sixth floor window and watch as it hit the sidewalk below, blue sparks flying all over, and a big puff of smoke, and a loud bang.

Then my TV would have provided me with some entertainment for the very first time.

posted on April 29th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

25 On April 30th, 2008, Michelle said:

Awesome project, ideas and pictures! Just curious as to the grade you received. Keep up the good work and I hope you pursue this subject beyond your project for school. We need real women such as yourself to portray what REAL women look like!

posted on April 30th, 2008 at 12:14 am

26 On April 30th, 2008, mo pie said:

This is so cool and thought-provoking. Awesome.

posted on April 30th, 2008 at 2:30 am

27 On April 30th, 2008, SaraSmile said:

I think DiosaNegra1967 made a good point to call our attention to the fact that the ads are still not as inclusive as we would like to think. It is necessary to always be examining what we are viewing, I think we can all agree on that. Examining attempts such as Kristin ‘Lou’ Herout’s to make inclusions in media is especially necessary so that we aren’t left thinking this feat has already been accomplished and so that we may learn and make better strides at becoming an all inclusive society. That’s what I find so great about this project. It really opens our eyes and gets conversations going. It’s great to see real women for what they really are, beautiful, sexy and diverse. I really commend Kristin ‘Lou’ Herout for being so daring.

posted on April 30th, 2008 at 9:58 am

28 On May 1st, 2008, susan said:

Wow — very cool project! I have to say that the ads with the more realistic women are more appealing to me.

posted on May 1st, 2008 at 3:42 pm

29 On May 2nd, 2008, cggril said:

rachel thanks so much for the thoughtful reply! very very helpful.

posted on May 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 pm

30 On May 23rd, 2008, Sexy at any Size said:

Your project sounds both interesting and worthwhile. There needs to be a wider awareness of the fact that size is not inextricably linked with beauty or sexiness, what is more importance is self confidence and the attitude to carry off whatever you wear!

posted on May 23rd, 2008 at 5:43 am

31 On May 26th, 2008, anotherherout said:

It’s about time I type in our last name google at work and find something other than a bunch of people forgetting to put the space between “her” and “out”.
P.S. i had no idea you were doing this.

Love
Josh

and yes i am such a hard worker

posted on May 26th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

32 On May 26th, 2008, anotherherout said:

our last name In* google…forgot that one word there

posted on May 26th, 2008 at 6:40 pm

33 On May 26th, 2008, anotherherout said:

Hey…and i just noticed Jennifer in the picture collage up top the page too. Neat-o

posted on May 26th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

34 On June 27th, 2008, Quick Body-Positive Hits » The-F-Word.org said:

[...] all area Illinois residents! Remember the awesome Lou Herout, who was featured here in an April interview? She’s the graduate student who replicated advertisements from [...]

posted on June 27th, 2008 at 11:32 am