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There are currently 31 responses to “Miss Plus Size Elite slams fatfighter MeMe Roth”

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1. 1 On April 9th, 2008, Joy Nash said:

   AAAA-MEN! Jenna really shone in that millisecond she was given to speak her piece. And beautiful expansion on the topic Rachel. (I think you’ve got a typo there in the BMI line)

   posted on April 9th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

2. 2 On April 9th, 2008, Rachel said:

   Thanks, Joy. I also reread the BMI lines but don’t see a typo listed. Maybe you’re interpreting “read” differently than I intended.

   posted on April 9th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

3. 3 On April 9th, 2008, Joy Nash said:

   Gah! How embarrassing- I was lumping “overweight” in with what I thought it was supposed to be: 25-30.9 Sorry about that!

   posted on April 9th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

4. 4 On April 9th, 2008, Zilly said:

   Not to mention that “they have set themselves up for risk factors down the road” implies that they have actively done something which made them obese in the first place. But it’s good to see the sensible side win, for once.

   posted on April 9th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

5. 5 On April 9th, 2008, Lola said:

   I still haven’t seen the video, but it sounds like a good reaction. I do think you have a typo in your line about obesity. Isn’t obesity 30 to 39,9, according to the BMI standards?

   posted on April 9th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

6. 6 On April 9th, 2008, Rachel said:

   Aha, that was it Lola. I totally missed it.

   posted on April 9th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

7. 7 On April 9th, 2008, Charlotte said:

   Anyone who can keep thier cool when Meme Roth is in the room is on my list of heroes.

   posted on April 9th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

8. 8 On April 9th, 2008, Ashley said:

   I watched this episode this am and I was Like yeah, tell they MeMe B—- how it is

   posted on April 9th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

9. 9 On April 10th, 2008, Sarahbear said:

   That was so awesome. Jenna totally called Roth on her bullshit and her lack of medical expertise. She truly deserves that crown she’s wearing.

   posted on April 10th, 2008 at 12:49 am

10. 10 On April 10th, 2008, pinupgirl said:

    Good on Jenna. And is it just me, or does Meme look constipated? More proof that thin does not equal beautiful.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 2:09 am

11. 11 On April 10th, 2008, Fauve said:

    Rachel writes: “Juliet pointedly asked if obese people can be healthy - obese is usually signified by a BMI of 30 to 39.9 - not if morbidly obese people can be healthy.”

    Good point. However, you are not addressing the fact that *morbid* obesity *is* unhealthy in a myriad of ways. That does not mean people who are morbidly obese should be demonized or hated. I have a BMI of 47. I am morbidly obese. Believe me, it makes me steam when people treat me with disrespect because of my weight. Also believe me when I say that the Fat Acceptance movement also angers me when they try to shut down my voice because I am honest about my health woes and my wish to be a smaller size. Not thin! Just smaller. And that I wish to eat better. Not diet! Eat better and continue my daily exercise. So down pull a “MeMe Roth” on me and tell me that I am bad for being honest. Don’t deny, in your honorable attempts to bring dignity and respect to *all* fat people, that morbid obesity Does has negative health consequences for many people.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 8:36 am

12. 12 On April 10th, 2008, Rachel said:

    However, you are not addressing the fact that *morbid* obesity *is* unhealthy in a myriad of ways.

    Actually, I did acknowledge this in the preceding sentence. And I consider myself a fat rights activist, not a fat acceptance activist. And lastly, the health aspects of morbid obesity aren’t the issue, here.

    Personally I don’t know of anyone in the movement who would disparage you for making healthier food choices. But then again, the movement is not a monolithic entity, either. It’s made up of diverse people who all bring their own beliefs and perspectives to the table.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 9:39 am

13. 13 On April 10th, 2008, Fauve said:

    Rachel writes: “And I consider myself a fat rights activist, not a fat acceptance activist.”
    Ah, therein might lie the key difference. An activist for fat rights wants fat people to be treated fairly. A person who wants fat acceptance, however, is in a rockier boat, in my opinion. After all, it’s a hard sell to insist that absolutely everyone accept a condition that brings some pretty serious health issues with it when it gets into the “morbid” category. Decreasing stigma can be done while also acknowledging the real risks of being obese. To insist that fat is always healthy is disturbing and dishonest, imo. (And, after re-reading your words, I see that you *did* address this issue. My apologies for overlooking that). Re: the video, I was dismayed when the doctor downplayed eating well and exercising, for obese people. No, eating veggies and regular exercise *won’t* make health risks go away for the morbidly obese, but they can *lessen* them. That is important, given that most fat people, if they lose weight, will only regain it, + more.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 10:23 am

14. 14 On April 10th, 2008, Rachel said:

    After all, it’s a hard sell to insist that absolutely everyone accept a condition that brings some pretty serious health issues with it when it gets into the “morbid” category.

    That’s not why I prefer the term fat rights over fat acceptance. It’s a semantics issue: Fat rights more accurately sums up what my aims are. I don’t care if people “accept” me or my fatness, they are not allowed to discriminate against me for it. It’s the same reason why we have a civil rights and gay rights movements, and not civil acceptance and gay acceptance movements.

    And I don’t agree that morbid obesity in and of itself automatically brings with it “serious health issues.” I think it can pose a health risk for some people, while for others it may not. Morbid obesity is defined as just 100 pounds over an ideal weight. I certainly had no serious health problems when I weighed more than 100 pounds over what is defined as my ideal weight. I would agree however, that a person who weighs 500 pounds probably suffers from weight-related health issues, the least of which would be mobility issues. There are so many independent factors one must take in consideration when determining health; it’s not as clear cut as you make it out to be.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 10:53 am

15. 15 On April 10th, 2008, Fauve said:

    “…it’s not as clear cut as you make it out to be.”
    I am not black and white about it - I’m actually in the middle, I think. People who have blogs such as yours, often want to deny that obesity brings with it serious health risks (for almost everyone in the “morbid” category, at least). This view is in direct contrast to all the many more people in this world who won’t stop harping on the health risks - ever. And use those risks as an excuse to stigmatize and demonize fat people. I understand the zeal to insist that fat people can be healthy. Health is an issue of many components, not the least, mental and psychological health. Your points about rights vs acceptance are very strong, I think. Also: thanks for allowing my comments. I find your blog interesting, inspiring and stylish. I intend to visit it regularly and, hopefully, give regular comments. I am not a perfect person with perfect positions on anything, but I give a great deal of thought to all these issues. Certainly, they impact on me pretty directly.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 11:26 am

16. 16 On April 10th, 2008, Rebecca M. said:

    I don’t think anyone denies that fat people can be unhealthy. (So can thin people, and “in-between” people.) It’s also fair to say that obesity can exacerbate health problems but fat itself does not cause disease, and that’s a distinction that more people need to be aware of.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

17. 17 On April 10th, 2008, happyapple said:

    I don’t think I could be in the same room with MeMe Roth. It just seems like she never, ever believes anything a fat person says. When Jenna Vaught said that she had just ran four miles that morning, it looked like Roth’s eyebrow raised in disbelief. Maybe I just imagined it, the screen was pretty small, but it kind of wouldn’t surprise me one bit. She just seems so hateful.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

18. 18 On April 10th, 2008, Zilly said:

    Your conversation got me thinking. I’m still not entirely sure what my opinion on the health of especially large people is, but I try to think of it this way: Since it is impossible to lose weight and keep it off in most cases (not saying that doesn’t ever happen, but after all it is highly unlikely), I wouldn’t say that extreme obesity brings with it health risks. It’s more like an already existing health problem that often can’t be reversed. You’re not at risk for anything, but you will get natural side-effects of the size itself, like immobility. Calling mortal obesity a risk factor for certain things would be like saying that an autistic person is “at risk” for being unable to speak. Well, duh. Some can’t speak, some can. It is a symptom that sometimes occurs, just like immobility and such in large people. In fact I don’t think it’s wrong to call mortal obesity itself a disease in some cases … but that shouldn’t be measured by weight. It should be considered a disease as soon as the person begins to have trouble leading a more or less normal life. It’s not worth pointing out that the person is “unhealthy” in some way because a) it’s not their fault, b) it’s obvious, and c) it probably can’t be changed.

    I hope I have managed to make myself clear enough to avoid having stones thrown at me.

    posted on April 10th, 2008 at 11:35 pm

19. 19 On April 11th, 2008, Quiwi said:

    I’m in agreement with Zilly and Rebecca M.. Maybe it was just me, but the comments here appeared to be leaning toward the “Fat isn’t that bad, but you better not be THAT fat” side of things. To state the obvious, being fat isn’t the sole determinant in disease risk, many factors (genetics and lifestyle, to name a couple) come into play. People who are categorized as morbidly obese (the name alone sounds like a death sentence!)may see some of the opinions posted here as another finger wag directed at them. It sounds a little like this:”All is good, unless your BMI drifts over the 39 mark. Maybe you should drop a few pounds (diet?)until your BMI is appropiate.” If that was not anyone’s stipulation, I apologize in advance, I just wanted to state how my perception of things here went.
    It’s just as Miss Plus Size Elite was trying to point out: Size should not deter anyone from a good quality of life. If a person happens to be morbidly obese, healthy or not, he/she deserves to go about living well without being called a walking disease, an epidemic, or an inevitable death sentence. The same goes for people who are naturally very thin- they have a natural setpoint, too, and they don’t deserve to be labeled as ‘anorexic’ by strangers who don’t know them. Heathier living should be encouraged by all, for all, without the burden of meeting everyone’s personal expectations of size.

    posted on April 11th, 2008 at 2:23 am

20. 20 On April 11th, 2008, Fauve said:

    “It’s just as Miss Plus Size Elite was trying to point out: Size should not deter anyone from a good quality of life.”

    I very much agree. But - Miss Plus Size Elite, herself, appears to want to lose weight. It’s in the video. I can see why: I have sleep apnea, pre-diabetes and arthritis in my feet - all either due to, and/or aggravated by my size. Can thin people have these ailments, too? Of course, Still, carrying 150+ extra pounds is not healthy for my body.
    The size movement wants to make obesity seem natural or even healthy. Unfortunately, it’s Not natural Or healthy for many people. The problem is that people at lower sizes (yet, still considered “obese”, such as a size 16) might have no health issues. But everyone gets lumped in with people at much greater weights.
    And, of course, people who are less obese, or even just naturally big Also get stigmatized against.
    We all live in a fat-phobic society. Yes, there Are fat people who can be healthy. And, thin people are not, by virtue of just being thin, always healthy. That’s obvious, but many people don’t get it.
    Even so, many obese people are suffering health issues directly related to the weight. If we can manage to lose some weight, these issues ease up. If we manage to lose - and keep off - a great deal of weight, the health maladies can even be reversed. Yet, to lose and keep off a great amount of weight is often not possible. Believe me, I know this directly.
    Unfortunately, the size acceptance movement often dislikes people like me because we are honest about our morbid obesity (yes, Morbid obesity) and know that it has *real* and negative health consequences for us. And regular people hate us due to stigma.
    Stigma increases as weight increases. Added stigma adds to added health issues, as stress can worsen health. The illnesses that obesity either brings or are correllated with can get worse with stigma.
    So I wish the stigma would decrease, but not if it means I have to deny how obesity has ruined my health.
    I feel driven to overeat in ways I cannot understand. I felt that way at 120 pounds and I feel this way at 320 pounds, but I feel it even more, now. The binge eating disorder I have suffered from all my life has brought obesity which only adds to my suffering.
    If I could *safely* reverse the obesity, I would. This does not mean I am any less for fat rights than other people.

    posted on April 11th, 2008 at 7:54 am

21. 21 On April 11th, 2008, Rachel said:

    Fauve - First, let me say that I agree with you on a lot of issues. My father weighs more than 400 pounds and his weight does negatively affect his health, so I am acutely aware of the health risks of morbid obesity. In fact, my belief that weight can be a determinant in some weight-related health issues often puts me at a distance from those in the fat acceptance movement. I think it is entirely possible for one to go above one’s setpoint weight range, just as it is possible for one to go below it and both can be unhealthy.

    The problem is, by demonizing fatness as a health issue, it opens the floodgates for people to culturally and socially discriminate against fat people. It’s almost impossible to distinguish between the two. If we make fatness a simple matter of “choice,” then it stands to reason that fat people have willfully “chosen” to incur these health problems. And I think anyone who has ever struggled with weight issues will agree that one’s weight isn’t a simple matter of choice.

    My site is an eating disorders awareness and education site. I believe weight discrimination adversely affects the self-esteem of so many people and is a contributing factor in the rise of eating disorders. My primary goal here in bringing up issues of weight related discrimination is to point out these correlations and present a positive image of one who is fat and healthy. I agree that fatness can be a factor in health issues, but the climate now is that fatness is used as a scapegoat for ALL health issues. One can be fit, fat and unhealthy, just as one can be unfit, fat and unhealthy. Vice versa for thin people.

    Quiwi, I never advocate dieting for anyone at any weight. But I do try to encourage a healthy lifestyle and weight here. A healthy relationship to food and a healthy body weight is key to eating disorder recovery and prevention. Many an eating disorder begins as a simple diet, which leaves fat people even more susceptible to developing a disordered relationship with food. This is, of course, not to ignore those cultural factors that lead one to feel they are fat even when they are not. I don’t use BMI as a yardstick to measure good health (with the exception of underweight), so I would never say to someone “get thee BMI beneath XX,” but I do encourage people to eat a balanced, healthy diet combined with moderate physical activity so that their body weight falls within its own natural range.

    posted on April 11th, 2008 at 11:11 am

22. 22 On April 11th, 2008, Fauve said:

    Rachel, we do agree on much, I think. You write:
    “If we make fatness a simple matter of “choice,” then it stands to reason that fat people have willfully “chosen” to incur these health problems. And I think anyone who has ever struggled with weight issues will agree that one’s weight isn’t a simple matter of choice.”
    I know this. I feel *compelled* to eat alot - even if it makes me sick - and it often does. I think that some obesity might be connected to appetite set-points going up.
    I do also believe that being fat and learning acceptance and even going beyond that to being positive is a vital, *healthy* way to approach one’s body and other, related issues.
    I hope that being honest about some of my struggles does not equate to denying any of the above. In my own mind, it does not.
    I do need to listen to positive voices, too. I suffer with depression - and did at 120, I assure you. I think that depression made my ed worse, which made my weight soar much too high for me. It’s really sad. I guess the sorrow of this is hard to bear.
    But, I look forward to reading more interesting blog entries on your great site! Thanks for “allowing” my voice, even if we don’t agree 100%. That means alot to me.

    posted on April 11th, 2008 at 11:17 am

23. 23 On April 11th, 2008, Quiwi said:

    Thank you Fauve and Rachel for further elaborating your stance on weight and health issues. I now have a better understanding of what these issues mean to you on a more personal level. I think that both of your positions are similar in regard to being aware of how size can make an impact on one’s physical and mental well- being. I think we can all agree that shaming people because of their size can adversely affect anyone who wants to improve their health. It can also trigger a negative perception of self, which in turn can lead to the onset or relapse of disordered eating, addictive behaviors, and so on.
    This is why I’m all for anything that puts people of all sizes in a positive light. Yes, I am aware of how weight at either extreme can cause serious physical problems for anyone, especially if they live a very unhealthy lifestyle. As long as those who are genuinely trying to help others live better can do so without using moral depravity or statistical fear, I have no problems with that at all. (I just want to say that I am not accusing Fauve or Rachel of doing any of that- in fact, you have stated your opinions quite fairly.)
    Fauve, I am glad that you have been honest about how morbid obesity has affected you. You are right, realistically, being very heavy can sometimes make life pretty difficult and painful. That’s the unpretty side of fat activism/acceptance, and there are a good number of people who simply do not want to go there. We feel compelled to put all of the fat positives out there, because the negative is already firmly rooted in many people’s minds. I guess it’s safe to say that we have to find a way to expose the humanity of fat folks- which includes a mixture of good and bad points- without enabling all of the negative stereotypes that fat people have had to bear already.
    Fauve, you have every right to do what you feel is right for your health. Divisiveness has been a hot topic in fat acceptance sites, and I’m sorry if you have run into any attacks on your personal decisions. Just know that there are people out there who are open-minded, and will not judge you by what you want for yourself. I wish you a lifetime of health and happiness, however you choose to achieve it.

    posted on April 11th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

24. 24 On April 11th, 2008, Zilly said:

    Fauve, I see where you are coming from. But I insist that while the sleep apnea might have been caused by your weight, the pre-diabetes and arthritis most likely were not. You said yourself that you overeat, and that’s what brought on both your weight and your pre-diabetes. Arthritis symptoms can be lessened by weight loss because your body doesn’t have to carry such large amounts of weight around anymore, but that doesn’t mean that if you had never become fat, you wouldn’t have arthritis now. Thin and “normal” people get arthritis, too, and even they might feel better after weight loss - despite the fact that for them, weight loss would be unhealthy. It’s a simple, physical matter of lowering pressure, and does not equal reversing the cause of your disease.

    I agree that for some people, namely those who overeat, being obese isn’t natural. However, it isn’t unhealthy in itself. The overeating is what’s unhealthy for you, can you see the difference? It’s important to keep in mind that BED is a real eating disorder, just like anorexia. Binge eaters are fat and unhealthy in the same sense that anorexics are thin and unhealthy - they’re not unhealthy due to their weights, but instead their weights were caused by the fact that they’re unhealthy. I hope this doesn’t sound offensive, that’s not my intention. I’m sorry that you’ve been suffering for so long.

    As Rachel put it so nicely, “[eating] a balanced, healthy diet combined with moderate physical activity so that their body weight falls within its own natural range” is exactly what I think that every person on this planet should be doing. Some would lose weight during the process, some would gain weight, and some would simply become more healthy while their weights stayed the same. When discussing Fat Acceptance, people often forget to acknowledge this. Nobody wants to deny that BED exists, and is not healthy, but mortal obesity doesn’t equal BED (which I’m sure you know and didn’t mean to imply). In fact, only a small percentage of fat people are suffering from BED, just like only a small percentage of thin people are suffering from anorexia. Those are special cases, and they were not the topic of discussion in the video. You have to differentiate between Fat People in general and Fat People With An Eating Disorder. Would you say that being thin can be unhealthy for some people? I don’t think so. Not eating enough can and WILL be unhealhy for ALL people, and the same applies to eating too much. Nobody ever said that eating too much was healthy … but being fat in and of itself is, if not caused by anything special, usually just as healthy as being thin.

    Wow, that one turned out quite long. :O

    posted on April 11th, 2008 at 11:47 pm

25. 25 On April 21st, 2008, miss plus america elite jenna said:

    hi everyone this is jennna…miss plus america elite. I want to say that i just found out about the blog and I really want to say thanks for everything….I want to start by saying meme roth sets up a dangerous standard for people to live by. she is black and white…there is no gray for her. although i know that there is an obestity problem in the states..she is not finding or promoting healthy solutions…instead, she uses her platform to belittle and cut at the heart of those facing weight issues. Myself i know what it takes to be healthy, and people like meme roth were one of the reason why i never had the courage to get healthy in the beginning. Today i have the confidence and self love to not listen to such biased comments on her part. thanks for th blog..you made my day.

    posted on April 21st, 2008 at 7:03 am

26. 26 On April 21st, 2008, miss plus america elite jenna said:

    Hey Joy…I just want you to know that i totally admire your appearance with meme as well…say hi sometime..
    jenna

    posted on April 21st, 2008 at 7:06 am

27. 27 On April 21st, 2008, Jen said:

    Hi everyone,

    I just stumbled across this website but I have to say I’m really glad I found it. A lot of what people have said in the preceding comments tell me that all is not lost and there are sensible people in the world. I’m glad there are people who can still fight for fat rights and not fat acceptance! I’m sick of ’skinny’ sites bagging fat people and fat acceptance groups dismissing all health advice. They’re both extremes of the same bad attitude. I always tried to make this point to steely opposition from fat acceptance types who put me down to being against them.

    I am not at all fat but I don’t hate fat people. I think that there’s a lot of hatred in the world and it’s become a real war of thin people against fat people. There’s always this assumption that you’re in one camp or the other. It makes me really sad. Be nice if we could all just get along and help each other!

    posted on April 21st, 2008 at 10:55 am

28. 28 On April 21st, 2008, Fauve722 said:

    “In fact, only a small percentage of fat people are suffering from BED, just like only a small percentage of thin people are suffering from anorexia.”

    Zilly, excellent comments, in general, but: I really think it depends. BED (binge eating disorder) is much more prevalent than Anorexia. And people who have BED are Not always fat - some are normal weight.
    Also: I can’t speak for all fat people. I only know my own story. Obesity - from the BED - has worsened arthritis for me and caused my other health woes, or worsensed them.
    But you are right - obesity, in and of itself is *not* the central problem. The BED is. That’s all I will say for now. I appreciate your feedback very much.

    To Miss Plus America Elite Jenna - You Rock!!!!

    posted on April 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pm

29. 29 On April 22nd, 2008, miss plus america elite jenna said:

    Hi this is Miss Plus America Elite again…jenna. I think it is great to realize that I think that many women…much like myself..really have been battling binge eating disorders. I share the story of being four years old and hiding butter under my bed and eating it for no reason. I know personally…for a lot of my life…i got to be over four hundred pounds because of an eating disorder. It wasnt the food..it was the reason for the food. I have a great friend who is so thin and beautiful but she has the same problem and does the same thing. although i have really learned how to approach this long lived disorder…I know that it was about to take over my life. but there was a point where i realized that i had a different vision and needed to find another way…so losing the weight is hard for anyone..goodness..but i think it should be acknowledged thats its almost impossible when you are really battling an eating disorder on top of it. Now i have a totally healthy and great outlook on myself and life…I dont have the urge to binge as I used to..it took time..but if i can do it for twenty something years..and get to a healthier place..ANYONE CAN.
    also..i really believe in great fitness and health..but i am totally against this hatred against fat people or anyone for that matter. there has got to be something better in life to hate…

    posted on April 22nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm

30. 30 On April 22nd, 2008, miss plus america elite jenna said:

    its jenna again..
    i wanted to add one more thing…as a big girl and a future doctor..it is a weird position to be in. Here is the bottom line for me..and I actually agree much with dr.jennifer on the show…being overweight or orbese does not mean you are not worthy, great, fantastic, talented,sexy, smart, beautiful or anything. It really only means that you are at a higher risk for medical complications. that is all it means. It does not mean you will absolutely die from it..or get sick from it..it just means you are at a higher risk. Thats what i tell myself, my friends, and patients. It has nothing to do with being fantastic or not…i really detest meme social judgements. they are dangerous..misleading..and promote hatred and bias. She believes there is nothing to celebrate about being a plus sized beauty queen??? When did she become the one to set the standards for beauty? Not only in Meme a medical and social expert..but now she claims to know fashion, mode, and beauty??? This woman should find solutions to an obesity problem in our community not promote social stigma and hatred…its just amazing to me.

    posted on April 22nd, 2008 at 12:26 pm

31. 31 On May 13th, 2008, Mrs. Plus America 2007 said:

    I just want to say that Jenna, you rock! I had the privilege of meeting (and competing against) Jenna at the 2007 Miss Plus America Pageant and she is just as wonderful, well spoken and charismatic in person as she is on the show. Thanks to her and women like us, we are getting our message out there. I am so proud to be involved with such a great organization.
    -Erin Hagerty
    Mrs. Plus America 2007

    posted on May 13th, 2008 at 2:44 am

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