A case for pro-ana/mia sites

7th December 2007

A case for pro-ana/mia sites

posted in Eating Disorders, Health, Nutrition & Fitness, Pop Culture |

There’s an ongoing discussion over at MamaVision on the subject of pro-ana/mia sites and whether they should be shut down or not.

The very definition of pro-ana/mia is usually a no brainer: These sites promote eating disorders as a “lifestyle choice,” not diseases, and do not encourage recovery from these conditions.

Yet, if you delve beneath the surface, the issue is much more complex. There are, in fact, many degrees to and levels of pro-ana/mia beyond the popular connotation. Some sites, while purporting to be neither pro-ana or pro-recovery, allows members to come, as Charlynn notes, “as they are” in all stages of their disorder, including those actively seeking recovery and those who actively seek to reinforce disordered behavior.

If a site provides a platform for those who wish to perpetuate and promote an eating disorder as a lifestyle choice, is it, to a limited degree, a pro-ana/mia site?

I recently visited such a site. Although it does offer an exiguous forum for those seeking recovery, it also has a forum devoted to restricting and fasting and encourages “competition” amongst members. Another section allows users to post thinspirational photos of celebrities, while another encourages members to post fitness and dieting regimes.

Sites like this, as well as the more quintessential pro-ana/mia sites, provide a platform for people who want to get sick or sicker to do so. Yes, some of these sites are harmful; yes, they’re mutually self-destructive; yes, they’re dangerous. But should they be shut down? Surprisingly, as one who is recovering from anorexia and bulimia, I say no. Let these sites stand and let’s learn from them.

Before you condemn me en masse, hear me out. Pro-ana sites do promote and glamourize eating disorders, particularly anorexia, but they also provide an important supportive network for the mostly women who patronize them. And the support isn’t all “How can I become even more disordered” as you might believe (even though this is a big part of what pro-ana/mia sites profess to be about).

Sometimes the support can be harmful, but more often than not, it can also be beneficial. This particular site, like many I’ve seen, also includes a forum for those seeking recovery. And in disorder-specific forums, members often post on the negative aspects and dangers of the disease, with others posting words of encouragement or understanding.

Anyone who has ever had an eating disorder can attest to what a lonely and debilitating disease it is. Eating disorders fester in isolation; they thrive in secrecy. Friends and family fell by the wayside as you begin to live in your head and only your head. Anorexia is not the most fatal of psychiatric disorders because its victims starve themselves to death; rather, the most common cause of death is suicide. The simple fact of knowing there are others out there similarly affected; others, who possess many of the same fears and behave much as you do, is endlessly therapeutic in itself.

This is why sites like We Bite Back and Something Fishy are so popular for eating disordered people. As We Bite Back explains:

Before we came along, there was no place for people to go who found support on pro-ana forums, communities and email lists who didn’t want to do the ana thing anymore. Welcome to the first web site designed specifically for post-pro-anorexics.

Recognizing that proana communities provided teens and adults alike with an appreciated supportive environment, we have created a community that provides support without encouraging anorexic or bulimic behavior patterns.

Banning pro-ana/mia sites will do very little to curb the rising rates of eating disorders, just as banning super-skinny models will have little effect. Eating disorders are complex psychological diseases, often organic in nature. You cannot “choose” to have an eating disorder nor will these sites in and of themselves “cause” one to develop a disorder.

Pro-ana/mia sites do not recruit its members. The girls, women and more increasingly boys and men who seek out these kinds of sites will usually find what they’re seeking somewhere. Banning these sites might make it more difficult, yes, but ultimately, these seekers will find what they’re looking for, or will start a rash of even more pro-ana/mia websites. By shutting them down, we’re only forcing them farther underground.

As even ANRED notes:

Parents and advocacy groups have tried to ban pro-ana sites from the Internet, but as soon as one is shut down, two more pop up.

Besides, who needs pro-ana/mia sites when you can pick up any number of magazines or turn on any random television show and learn disordered behaviors? Teen Vogue magazine even has a pseudo pro-ana forum on its community messageboard. Are we going to ban media, too? Are we going to ban culture?

From a clinical and sociological standpoint, pro-ana/mia sites are important sources to mine to understand eating disorders and those who develop them better. Therapists and doctors often preach to and at people with an eating disorder, but rarely do they have first-hand knowledge of the disease. Here’s a prime opportunity to learn the often secretive subculture of eating disorders and use it to educate others.

I had intended on remaining a member of the site, despite its pro-ana/mia leanings. The atmosphere there was too toxic, I fear, and so I won’t be returning. It’s important to note, these sites are usually only mutually supportive if you join in on the party line there.

What are your thoughts or experiences with these kinds of sites? Are the shut-downs of these sites simply a futile matter of ‘out of sight, out of mind,’ as Mamavision suggests? Or are these sites more harmful than beneficial?

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This entry was posted on Friday, December 7th, 2007 at 12:45 am and is filed under Eating Disorders, Health, Nutrition & Fitness, Pop Culture. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

1 On December 7th, 2007, Pam said:

I once had a site as a person with multiple personalities, advocating that multiples not try to integrate but instead learn to live well as multiples. Eventually I integrated despite not setting that as a goal–when I learned to love my parts they didn’t need to be separate. I notice that the same thing happened to the people who had the two other best known anti-integration sites.

I’ve always been tempted but hesitant to think that experience might also apply to pro-ana sites. I think for many people struggling with inner pain, feeling some sense that they are valuable people who have something to contribute just the way they are is a huge step towards healing, even if it is in an alternative community.

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 8:59 am

2 On December 7th, 2007, Michelle said:

You are absolutely correct, we can’t ban culture or the media but I am certain that these people will either have an epiphany or this disorder will make them violently sick.

I had bulimia for years and I didn’t stop until I was sick. Only then did I ask myself, is being sick the whole time I’m “skinny” really healthy after all? So I can identify with you and your reasonings to allow these mediums to be as they are.

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 9:37 am

3 On December 7th, 2007, Rachel said:

FYI: This discussion here is in relation to the larger scope of pro-ana/mia sites, and not necessarily about the particular site I referenced in my post.

Since that site is a members-only site and not open to the general public here, I ask that you reserve your comments to either your own experiential knowledge of these kinds of sites, or the broader scope of pro-ana/mia sites in general.

Thank you.

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 10:46 am

4 On December 7th, 2007, Faith said:

As a recovering bulimic – I agree with you Rachel. I am a member of a pro-recovery group online (in addition to real life therapy and support group) but I find that sometimes we get visited by people from the pro a/m sites. It seems that members who know that recovery is out there have referred people to us.

There are steps to recovery and part of that – for some people – may be finding their first intro to recovery at a pro-a/m site.

Faith

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 11:14 am

5 On December 7th, 2007, Josie said:

Hi Rachel,

i never realised before that you’re the same Rachel that’s over at MamaVisions forum! Small world

I agree completely with your views on pro-ana/mia sites. The main benefit i got from them was emotional support and understanding, which eased the loneliness a little. I was even talked out of suicide by friends there multiple times, and i did the same for others. So in some ways pro-ana sites saved my life.
At the same time, all those things which you point out to be harmful ARE most definitely harmful. I’d have struggled a lot more with recovery if i had not left.

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 11:45 am

6 On December 7th, 2007, Becky said:

That’s an interesting perspective. It sounds a lot like the forum I used to go to for young people with depression. It was harmful in some ways, we did encourage disordered behaviour in each other like cutting, drinking, taking pills… but we also provided each other with desperately needed support. When you have a mental illness of some sort, it just helps so much to talk to somebody who understands. So I can definately see that kind of thing being useful for people with eating disorders, but I can see the harmful side too.

I don’t know much about pro-ana sites, but from what I’ve read it sounds like some lean more toward reinforcing the disorder, while others lean more toward helping people recover from it, is that right in your experience?

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

7 On December 7th, 2007, Marjorie said:

A lot of the Teen Vogue poison is disseminated through corresponding members’ Myspace, Facebook sites, and blogs. I’d like to read your thoughts on the so-called alternative forum Roland where thinspiration and vomit inducing tips abound.

Generally those girls get their ideas from quote on quote satirical bloggers like BryanBoy and Gryphon, who insinuate that “fashion-loving fatties” don’t deserve designer attention and claim to harbor “aversions to fat people like Janis Joplin, MOO!”

Websites that even jokingly glorify an overly thin ideal play directly to the psychology of its victims, who may or may not get the joke.

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 1:36 pm

8 On December 7th, 2007, Carmen said:

Nobody’s disputing the value of ED sufferers seeking support.

The problem, as many see it, is when they share information that could endanger their health further, but I don’t know that there’s much to be done about that (and it’s another means of accessing support). Depressed people do discuss suicide and sometimes share thoughts on methods that are more painless, less messy or look accidental, but it’s up to the individual what they do with that information. Schizophrenics, on the other hand, gather for support (talk about an isolating condition), but they don’t typically share info on how to become more psychotic.

Shutting the sites down is obviously not going to help and the people who use them need to feel validated and supported. How can they get support without having their dangerous behaviors reinforced?

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 3:27 pm

9 On December 7th, 2007, Charlynn said:

I have been to a number of forums that could be misinterpreted for being pro-ana sites because they neither condone nor shun disordered behavior. The overall feel I get from the majority of these places is “come as you are,” whether actively disordered, recovering or in some state in between. Most of these sites are supportive and offer sufferers a safe haven to freely talk about what they are experiencing. Overall, I don’t see this as a bad thing. In fact, I frequent a couple of them and have done so for a few years. Even the knowledge that I won’t be judged or ridiculed for the things I think/do as a result of my ED makes these sites a valuable resource for me. It’s something I don’t have much of where I live, so I find a lot of comfort in knowing that *someone* out there understands.

posted on December 7th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

10 On December 8th, 2007, Vanessa said:

hi rachel, i think this was a pretty good statement of the arguments against shutting down pro ana/mia sites. as a moderator of a site that is even less pro than the one you describe (we don’t have competitions or thisperation) it’s nice to see that some people from outside the sites do understand.

in my opinion pro ana/mia forums do more harm than good in terms of encouraging eds vs providing support. however i think banning them is both impossible and wrong for reasons of free speech! what i do think would be nice would be for there to be more links between pro ana/mia communities and recovery communities. i think if, for example, a group of recovered eating disorder sufferers made a concerted effort to join and engage with these forums, talking about the benefits of recovery and giving people more information and challenging some of the harmful aspects of the forums it might be an effective way to bring more people into recovery earlier on in their disorders and mitigate some of the harmful effects that come from only talking with others who are as ill as you are.

unfortunately the situation as it stands is that the recovery areas of pro ana/mia sites are usually pretty slow, with few people participating in them, and in my opinion many people in pro ana/mia communities don’t have as much knowledge as they should about where to find help, how to recover, the benefits of recovery and the dire reasons why people should recover sooner rather than later.

posted on December 8th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

11 On December 8th, 2007, Rachel said:

…it’s nice to see that some people from outside the sites do understand.

Actually, I was a member of several sites that could be classified as pro-ana back in the heady days of my eating disorder. So, I’m not some casual onlooker imparting uninformed judgments. I do understand the nature of the sites and was an active participant for a long time. I choose now to frequent sites and blogs I feel are more constructive for my overall mental health, although I still have my finger on the pulse of contemporary pro-ana sites.

I think your idea of collaboration between pro- and anti-ED sites is a wonderful one. Unfortunately, I think many pro-recovery sites are overly and, in some cases, unnecessarily fearful of pro-ana/mia sites. It appears as if some of these sites, like SomethingFishy, wish to sequester their members inside some pro-recovery bubble, while ignoring the very real realities these women face on a daily basis that challenge their recovery. This is the reason I don’t frequent SomethingFishy anymore; I don’t like nanny boards.

posted on December 8th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

12 On December 9th, 2007, Harriet said:

Rachel,
I appreciate your bringing this up, because it’s a big issue. But I’m going to respectfully disagree with you.

The kind of support that’s offered at pro ana and mia sites is a false one. And it subverts and takes the place of real-world support, the kind that might actually aid in recovery.

Someone who’s ill with an eating disorder deserves real help from real people in the real world. As long as their illness is being validated in a virtual reality, they’re less likely to get that help. And it’s my opinion that anything that stands in the way of recovery is bad, even if it supplies temporary comfort. It’s a faux comfort and one that in the long run does more harm than good.

Also, I’m not sure support groups are actually helpful. When my daughter was ill, she joined a support group for a while, run by a wonderful therapist. And when she began to gain weight and recover, the group became very triggering. I think many people have this experience–it’s one reason why doctors try hard not to send young teens with anorexia to residential programs, because they get triggered by the other patients (and learn new ways to resist recovery).

Bottom line, IMHO, is that what the person with the disorder needs is real time recovery, and anything that detracts or distracts from that is bad.

posted on December 9th, 2007 at 1:23 am

13 On December 9th, 2007, Rachel2 said:

I will say that in my own struggle with these issues, isolation was the worst thing for me to do. I tumbled further and further into the mind-vortex until I decided to reach out and research what I was getting into. That involved thinspiration, pro-ana/mia stuff, and finally, MamaV. Online communities are very helpful, and you’ve put forth a very convincing argument. I am proof-positive that if one wants to recover and is willing to do the work: the therapy, the medications, talking to those around them to figure things out, it IS possible to recover, even when one thinks it’s not possible in the least. I have been there. I know. The OCD will always be there, but the symptoms are much more manageable when I am on and stick to the meds. It turns things into a dull, and incredibly manageable roar. I like WeBiteBack because of what they stand for, and I found them shortly after I found MamaV.

I think that overall, more attention needs to be brought to pro-recovery communities. We don’t need to ignore either aspect of it. A basic fundamental that I learned in my psychology class: Attention, negative or positive, is still attention. I think that is why the negative aspects of this thing survive.

Heh. Hi Josie. I’m the other Rachel over at MamaV. REALLY small world!!

posted on December 9th, 2007 at 3:20 am

14 On December 9th, 2007, Rachel said:

Harriet: Where have you been? I’ve been anticipating, and waiting for, your contrasting perspective

posted on December 9th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

15 On December 9th, 2007, Harriet said:

I *try* not to let real life get in the way of blogging, but darn it, sometimes it does.

posted on December 9th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

16 On December 11th, 2007, Amy said:

Something I’ve been interested in for a while — and if anyone has any information pertaining to this, I’d appreciate it — but, if eating disorders are in part a socially-driven/influenced disease, how does changing media affect them? What does having a virtual community of like-minded/like-diseased people mean to a disease that primarily serves to distance people from their real-life communities? Rather than a discussion of good versus bad, I’d like to see more about what it means for the definition of the disease. Culturally speaking, I think something massive is happening, and I sometimes feel that people are missing that because they’re so caught up in the shock value of these websites/forums.

posted on December 11th, 2007 at 9:16 pm

17 On December 12th, 2007, Megan said:

I’m a member of one such “gray area” website where we are currently having a discussion on this very topic. Here’s what I posted about it, to my friends there:

we are doing the ‘research’ here that they are not brave enough or smart enough to do in the university clinics. we are acting out behaviors here in an environment where we don’t have to be ashamed or put up a front. does acting them out in an environment that doesn’t disparage them make them worse? maybe, maybe not. i think that’s up for debate. but even if parts of our disorders are fed by what is here, parts of ourselves that would never be nurtured anywhere else are strengthened due to the very fact that we can act these things out in a community that allows them–but doesn’t stifle debate about them.

when it comes to reading our friend’s accountability, suddenly we find ourselves scrabbling in our memories for those things, for him or her. suddenly we remember, “200 calories actually isn’t enough,” and “125 lbs is NOT fat at all” and “of course it’s okay to have dinner out with your friends.” does it cure us? no. but at least we have a reason to remember those things, to not become completely lost, completely alone in our sickness.

posted on December 12th, 2007 at 2:46 pm

18 On December 12th, 2007, Rachel said:

Megan writes: but at least we have a reason to remember those things, to not become completely lost, completely alone in our sickness.

Exactly. I think this feeling of non-aloneness, of knowing there are others out there struggling with many of the same issues, is therapeutic in itself.

Harriet writes: The kind of support that’s offered at pro ana and mia sites is a false one.

True, Harriet. I’m not debating this at all. And I know we disagree about some of the aspects of the nature of eating disorders. But for girls and women who don’t have families as supportive as yours, or who cannot afford treatment or who, for whatever reasons, can’t or don’t wish to actively pursue treatment, I think the benefits offered by these sites can sometimes balance and maybe, in some cases, can outweigh the negatives. And for me personally, visiting pro-ana/mia sites when I was actively disordered, with no plans to recover, had an opposite effect: I went to these sites and instead saw a vision of what I didn’t want to become. Even now as I peruse these sites from time-to-time, I am reminded of the awful place I was in and it drives my desire to never go back.

Amy writes: What does having a virtual community of like-minded/like-diseased people mean to a disease that primarily serves to distance people from their real-life communities?

You raise a very interesting question, Amy. ED sufferers are notorious for isolating themselves, and while both pro- and anti-recovery communities offer a degree of mutual support, any such support is still virtual. Can these online connections ever really take the place of a non-virtual and more personal relationship? I don’t have any answers to these questions, but I’m interested in hearing how others feel on the topic.

And I agree with your point on the shock value, too.

posted on December 12th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

19 On December 12th, 2007, Harriet said:

Amy,
You’ve touched on what I was trying to get at. So long as you’re hooked in to an online community, good or bad, you’re not connecting with real-life people. And that’s very much what people with e.d.s need–real-time support, connection, and help. Theoretically there’s nothing to stop you from having both an online and real life community, of course, but practically because e.d.s are so isolating, I suspect online communities wind up taking the place of other connections.

Rachel, I appreciate your points. Not every family is 100% supportive. Some are terrible, I’m sure. But I bet more families are supportive than it appears on the surface. One of the classic distortions of an e.d. is against the family. Many a fantastic tale of parental abuse and neglect has spun out of the mouth of someone who’s very ill with an e.d. And while a few of them are no doubt rooted in reality, many–I’d bet most–are not. So long as the research shows that a family is a teen’s best chance of beating an e.d., I’m going to speak out against anything that gets in the way of that family support.

posted on December 12th, 2007 at 7:31 pm

20 On December 13th, 2007, Melissa said:

I’m someone who’s suffered from bulimia and the constant fasting myself. I have relapsed and slipped into depression and even have attempted suicide 3 times. I only discovered these pro-ana sites yesterday, but in my opinion the only thing coming from them is the constant encouragement to continue with your eating disorder. A couple of months ago, I thought i was getting better, getting bigger though which put me completely off; this led me to look at thinsperation and by doing so made me want to re start it all again. We cannot change how the media influences us, but hope that people suffering from ED’s will seek recovery advice instead of methods to continue whatever disorder they have.

posted on December 13th, 2007 at 4:00 am

21 On December 14th, 2007, zombie z said:

I have to admit I haven’t read or even skimmed most of the comments due to time constraints, so maybe this has already been pointed out — but I think the pro-ED world is quite a bit smaller than the media tends to rant on about. Five years ago, pro-ED sites were everywhere, not that it mattered since they were all carbon copies of each other. Now I only know of one, and it’s forums are private and membership is closed (well–was last time I tried to follow a link there, about six months ago).

The forum that I still belong to is an even split between people with EDs and people who are recovered. Within the last year or two they’ve integrated into another forum (managed by the same person) to become focused on mental health issues in general, though it is obviously still very ED-oriented. Unlike Something Fishy, this particular forum does not force you into recovery. The subjects covered in non-recovery sections are constantly debated, as the moderators *and* members work very hard to maintain a non-pro-ED tone.

For true support, I think this is the way to approach it. Without this particular forum, my ED probably would’ve got a lot worse than it ever did, and I can’t imagine where that would send my depression. I may not be talking right now. I was *not* in a place to recover mentally or emotionally, and anorexia is a very stressful secret to keep — so the time I spent on that forum, not worrying about hiding, was a godsend. At the same time, when I was ready to recover, I was fully supported in that endeavor, as well.

Another thing about spending time with other eating disordered people: I saw the crazy. When you’re just alone in your room doing your fifty sit-ups in between every miniscule bite of bagel, it’s impossible to remember that this behavior is not normal. Posting on the forum gave me a chance to see how much worse it could get — the girl who weighed sixty pounds, the girl who snorted cocaine to keep from being hungry, the countless girls who vomited blood and passed out over the toilet — I saw it, and I did not want to become it, and I knew that’s where I was heading.

I still struggle, a lot. I still spend time on the forum every now and then (though I am mostly too absorbed in blogs and reality tv). I still don’t believe that anyone who actually *has* an eating disorder is “pro-ED,” because we know what hell is like.

posted on December 14th, 2007 at 12:45 pm

22 On December 23rd, 2007, lala said:

Thank you for pointing out how lonely this disease is. I recently relapsed; although I could have stopped it because I did recognize several of my issues returning the pull within my mind was far too strong for my supposed self control. That seems rather ironic. *smilez* I must say at least this one thing before I put my opinion in. I’m upset to see that the sites I used to visit are no longer around, hopefully that is due to someones recovery opposed to being banned. I just don’t know though. I don’t think that these sites should be banned. These sites offer me the support that I so desperately seek when I’m so isolated, lonely, and fearful. These sites have changed a great deal from what they were before which does kind of upset me. I’m having a hard time getting into my absolute favorite forum due to this “banning” and secrecy we now have. This one forum actually caused me to get the help that I needed last time. It’s actually kind of depressing that I have to answer so many questions and things of the sort to have someone to talk to and relate to. I really wish that I could just be getting the support I need from a real forum. Anyway, it’s ridiculous to ban the sites. There are numerous porn sites out there but we don’t ban them because why? But, you have to ban the sites that give so many people friends when they can’t have many in real life? Whatever. I’m very angry and unable to express anything else.

LaLa

posted on December 23rd, 2007 at 11:02 am

23 On December 27th, 2007, Elle said:

Hi:

I’d just like to point out that I think Roland has gotten confused with another site – we have no “vomit inducing tips abound.”

Being once diagnosed eating disordered myself, I do realize that some of the images posted, granted, some of my own photography, can be interpreted as “thinspiration” however, I would like to underline that that is not our intent nor do we actively engage in such activity.

I’d really appreciate it if the link to roland was removed from this website so that there is no confusion as to what our site is about.

Thanks.

posted on December 27th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

24 On December 27th, 2007, Rachel said:

Elle: I appreciate your clarification on the Roland site. I must have missed Marjorie’s comment and I didn’t see that she offered a link.

I’m not familiar with the Roland site and so can’t speak for the accuracy of Marjorie’s comment above. But I have removed the link for two reasons: A. you asked and B. while I don’t necessarily condemn sites that encourage eating disorders, nor do I want to offer links to them on my site. This isn’t saying that your site does encourage eating disorders, but since it was alleged that it does and I don’t have the time to comb through it to see if it does or not, I’d rather err on the side of caution.

posted on December 27th, 2007 at 3:20 pm

25 On December 27th, 2007, Elle said:

we were once purely fashion-based but now it’s more of a “here’s what my day was like, here are some pictures” site which is why we get a little nervous when our link is posted.

Thank you so much for removing the link.

posted on December 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

26 On January 30th, 2008, Lucy said:

So, I’ve had an eating disorder for about a year now… and I found pro ana/mia sites about 4 months ago…

I like them.

They don’t glamorize eating disorders…. Although they may in some ways promote them… but I honestly don’t think someone could give themselves an eating disorder just by reading the stuff on there.

While the support you find there… may .. and probably does encourage people deeper into their eating disorder.. it also helps them in alot of ways..

There isn’t any medical cure for an eating disorder… but love and support help alot. Without people you can laugh with, and lean on.. an eating disorder is more likely to eventually kill you.

If pro ana/mia sites are shut down…. then teens and youngadults… even kids.. whoevers struggling with it.. need somewhere else to go.. besides a hospital.. or a casket.

posted on January 30th, 2008 at 12:27 am

27 On January 30th, 2008, Harriet said:

Lucy,

You’ve put your finger on it.

Pro-ana and -mia sites take the place of the REAL help girls like you need.

Instead of going to the Internet, you need to go to a trusted parent, relative, or other adult who can help. The websites you’re hanging out in will lead you straight to that casket.

Take care of yourself, please. You are precious and deserve a full recovery from the hell of an eating disorder.

posted on January 30th, 2008 at 10:55 am

28 On March 10th, 2008, Cassandra said:

As a member of a “pro-eating disorder” website myself, I will say these sites are extremely dangerous. The competition is incredible because everyone is posting how little they eat or how much they purge. Thinspiration is everywhere and people keep detailed journals of their lives revolving around food. They talk about how much they exercise, how much water they drink, how many diet pills they take, and the list goes on and on.

The site I am part of does not permit “tips”, but all you have to do is read between the lines and all your answers are there.

The portions for “recovery” are there too, but provide little help besides comparing and contrasting all the different hospitals members have been to.

Other portions of the site include forums for self-injury, abuse, and chemical dependency… in addition to discussions about media, medical, and school.

Overall, the support is very artifical. You are either sick enough to be popular or too well to be accepted. They are not keen on free-speech and if they don’t like what you have to say, they boot you. It is all one big drama forum, filled with girls wanting to become sicker and sicker and sicker.

I want to see these sites shut down because in so many ways, they are just ENCOURAGING the behavior. Yes, having an eating disorder is isolating — but I am finding the more I visit these sites, the more isolated I become in real life and the more dependent I become on virtual people allowing me to become sicker and sicker. Knowing that other people are sicker and have the tricks to become sicker makes me want to try more dangerous things. All you have to do is READ and you can find out EXACTLY HOW TO ACT LIKE AN ANORETIC! Its quite simple and purging is laid out in black and white, including what foods are the best and what foods to avoid. These sites are filled with everything we already know as sufferers from eating disorders and having them reinforced like this only makes us worse.

I truly believe the one I am going to and have gone to, plan to stop going to, is fairly underground. It has over 3000 members, but less than probably 500 are active (if that many). You wouldn’t know how to search for this forum if you tried and only if you stumbled across it in the beginning would you really know it is out there, unless you met someone online or in real life who is a member. It is a “secret” that is potentially killing people because it allows us to dwell and bathe in our own vomit and skeleton skin. They are terrible!!

I am attempting recovery and sites like this are making me worse.

posted on March 10th, 2008 at 9:26 am

29 On March 10th, 2008, Rachel said:

You are either sick enough to be popular or too well to be accepted. They are not keen on free-speech and if they don’t like what you have to say, they boot you. It is all one big drama forum, filled with girls wanting to become sicker and sicker and sicker.

You’ve articulated much of what I have found with pro-ana boards. People with an eating disorder, particularly anorexia, are often highly competitive people by nature. Add an eating disorder to the mix and it becomes yet another way to achieve big by losing the most. Death is the final triumph.

Some of the people I’ve met on these boards are among the most vile, mean-spirited people I’ve ever encountered. Some of this is due to the disease – a starving brain doesn’t think or act rationally. It’s also because many of these girls are young and lack the wisdom and maturity that comes with age.

I wish you the best in your recovery and hope you are able to surround yourself with more constructive forces.

posted on March 10th, 2008 at 9:40 am

30 On March 11th, 2008, hotsauce said:

wow… i must say that i’m shocked at this, rachel. i never would have thought you would argue against banning pro-ana/mia sites. i see where you’re coming from and i certainly respect your opinion, but i strongly disagree. although there is support for recovery on those sites (and yes, i’ve been to them), the negative pressure far outweighs any well-intentioned urges toward recovery that other members put out. it’s hard to take seriously any positive support when the rest of a site is filled with thinspiration photos and competition. mixing messages much?

i also don’t agree that these sites should stand because they provide valuable insights for people without EDs. i don’t support allowing harm to continue so others can understand said harm.

i agree with what harriet and cassandra have said — especially harriet’s point that it’s dangerous to become too wrapped up in online support at the cost of letting go of real life support. not everyone has that real life support set in place from the start, for sure. but it’s my belief that far too many people become immersed in online support because they don’t believe they can find it in real life, when in fact, they can if they discover the avenues that work for them.

so yes, i agree with you (rachel) that there is some support to be found on these sites, but that support is so negligible, so drowned in competing messages, and so outweighed by the sites’ bad aspects, that i can’t at all agree that these sites should stay up.

posted on March 11th, 2008 at 5:51 am

31 On March 11th, 2008, Rachel said:

hotsauce: I guess what it boils down to for me is that these sites will continue to exist regardless of how many hosts shut them down. Out of sight is not out of mind…

Also, the primary reason why anorexia is the most fatal of all psychiatric disorders is not because its sufferers starve to death. It’s because of depression. If sites like these keep women and girls suffering from anorexia or other eating disorders from feeling so lonely and isolated and ashamed that they feel suicide is their only answer, well, that is a form of support, however misguided it may be.

posted on March 11th, 2008 at 10:03 am

32 On March 25th, 2008, Nichole said:

Rachel, I agree with your point that these kinds of sites are going to exist no matter what.
Although I have been through a great deal in my life an ED is not something I have ever dealt with until recently. However the ED is not with me but with a friend. I’m in the military so sometimes I have a more harsh outlook on things so I decided to do some research on these types of sites and other blog sites that are not necessarily specific to ED but do have pro Ana groups on them. After looking at hundreds of sites and posts I realized that this is so much bigger than I had ever anticipated. I think some of these places are good for people to turn to for support but the majority of these sites I have found have girls (mostly) encouraging other girls to lose weight and not eat and binge and purge. It makes me so sad because I feel like there is something I should do to help them, but then I realized that it takes so much more than a concerned friend or stranger to really help them. I think I just rambled a bit but I’ve been thinking about this for quite some time.

posted on March 25th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

33 On March 26th, 2008, Lia said:

The truth is, if there can be sites like porn sites then why can’t there be pro-ana sites either? It’s freedom of the society in this case, and sometimes society does some pretty dumb things. i personally think it’s a stupid choice. the only people actually giving the tips are teenage girls obsessed with appearance. seriously, don’t be dumb enough to listen to what they have to say. they’re on one side of the wall and can only see things from one point of veiw. and believe me, their view is pretty messed up already if they’ve got a mental disorder. i hope everyone who has an eating disorder will FULLY recover some day soon because i, myself have an ED and i know how it feels. i will admit that i have gone on some of those sites and have listened to what ridiculous things the people say. but now that i look back on it, i realize that it’s just a bunch of stuff by MEANTAL people. sure, i am also a mental person, but it’s just plain stupidity that briings a person to take advice from one. although i’ll give you a brake because i know it’s really tempting. it’s kind of sickening when you think of pro-ana and thinspirations as tempting, but whatever. the best of luck to all of you!

posted on March 26th, 2008 at 7:44 am

34 On April 28th, 2008, sandra said:

I have to disagree somewhat with the assertion “You cannot “choose” to have an eating disorder nor will these sites in and of themselves “cause” one to develop a disorder”. I was anorexic for 12 years, and certainly I very knowingly made very many deliberate choices that led me to become a long-term practicing anorexic. I didn’t know or guess the psychological and emotional hell I would find myself in once my disordered eating /thinking behaviors tipped over into full-blown anorexia, but there’s simply no way I can claim that I was somehow victimized unawares by a disease. I think we have to be very careful with disease model thinking when it comes to eating disorders. It is essential to acknowledge the role of choice, even when those choices are governed/overruled by unstable psychological frameworks.

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 1:02 am

35 On April 28th, 2008, Rachel said:

Sandra: While you may have made deliberate decisions, I don’t think you would argue that your eating disorder was a simple matter of choice you could abandon once it had erupted. This is what I mean by eating disorders not being a “choice.” You simply cannot “choose” to stop the behaviors at a whim.

And while you might have actively made decisions that led to your disorder, I think there existed either some genetic predisposition or other factors that made you more susceptible to an eating disorder. Many women engage in disordered behaviors but lack the degree of self-loathing and body hatred needed to develop and sustain a disorder. This is why more women who diet do not develop eating disorders.

posted on April 28th, 2008 at 9:21 am

36 On April 30th, 2008, Fauve said:

I can understand the appeal of the Pro sites, and, in the interest of non-censureship, whenever possible, I think some of them should probably be left alone.
First, support is good, in and of itself, as Rachel points out. Second, sites that are *supposed* to be healthy and pro-recovery like Something Fishy can be really really negative in different ways. I was kicked out of SF for not getting with the program. I insisted that people can be fat and fit – which I think it possible – even as I was honest about my own health issues. Not good enough for Them! I had to be dedicated to losing all excess weight. I was constantly ganged up on by the board favorites when I did not comply in my thinking and make it “group-think”. Also, the people who run SF are not, to my understanding, professionals trained to treat people with eating disorders. It’s great, what they do (I admire SF in many ways), but it can also be an assault on one’s independence of thought to try to participate on SF. When I was there, they had a very “addictions counselor” kind of In Your Face, Kick Your Butt type of “recovery”. I really hate SF now and would never go back.

posted on April 30th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

37 On April 30th, 2008, Rachel said:

I want to stress that I appreciate the service Something Fishy provides, but I don’t think their style of board administration will mesh with everyone, especially adults with eating disorders. This is not to discount the wonderful work they do for the eating disordered community.

I know this isn’t what you’re implying, Fauve, I just wanted to be more clear in my own comments on the site.

posted on April 30th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

38 On May 1st, 2008, Fauve said:

For me, SF was an extremely negative experience that possibly contributed to worsening my ed. I truly believe that the administrators at SF need to rethink some of their positions and stop all the “butt-kicking”. They might mean well, but they can be pendantic and patronizing in the extreme. It can turn abusive, imo. My experience was of being ganged-up on and insulted if I did not comply in my thinking to what the mods and the admins and the favored ones thought. Board favorites Do exist. I do not presume to speak for others, in the least. However, if others have also suffered at the hands of Something Fishy, I wish they’d speak up. I’m tired of this site getting glowing reviews in books, and other websites, while the dark underside of their abuse probably goes unchecked. As I say, I cannot presume to speak for others, but I am pretty certain that I am not the only one to have suffered at Something Fishy. I think it is an excellent site in many regards and I found many people there who were great – but god forbid if you disagree with “Mr. Fishy” (Tony Medina), “SFishy” (Amy Medina) or other powerful “fishys” at Something Fishy. I cannot mince words here, but I also respect that others might well have had an entirely different experience than me. Still, that does not negate the truth of what I say about Something Fishy.

posted on May 1st, 2008 at 9:32 am

39 On May 7th, 2008, Fauve said:

I must add something very important: a site like Something Fishy, which is supposed to be dedicated to *helping people with eating disorders*, needs to be held to a *much higher standard* than other sites. Egging people on to (ahem) *challenge* others, while seemingly healthy, can all too easily descend into verbal and mental abuse. While challenging an ed mindset is important, it must be done with great restraint. Telling someone they will never be over their binge eating disorder unless and until they reach a “normal” weight is not healthy. I was told that by the administrators/mods/people at SF. I was also demonized by many for talking about foods I like/crave and my difficulties/pleasures therein (”food porn” was the label applied to my thoughtful posts). Even when I posted “triggering” on such posts, people still wanted me censored. I was nagged and lectured by some. No one needs that, not even young people. Anyone w/an ed already has *enough guilt*.

posted on May 7th, 2008 at 10:09 am

40 On July 10th, 2009, Anna said:

Hi,

Stop comparing these pro-anorexic sites or forums with schizophrenic behaviour or ’support groups’. Schizophrenics or depressive illnesses do not discuss their illness ad naseum. Why? Because these mental illnesses have a stigma attached to them. How do you know anyway?????

posted on July 10th, 2009 at 8:31 am

41 On July 10th, 2009, Anna said: