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1. 1 On October 8th, 2007, lavalady said:

   She’s in NO WAY plus sized, except when in comparison to the very very very thin women who populate modeling.

   She’s at the mid-range of her weight for her height, and by the time she leaves the competition, I’d wager she has lost 10-20 lbs.

   I have to admit I was never a fan of ANTM, but I’m definitely even less of one now.

   posted on October 8th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

2. 2 On October 9th, 2007, Ashley Brook said:

   I knew everyone would be freaking out over this. Tyra said time and time again, she’s not REALLY plus sized.

   posted on October 9th, 2007 at 12:51 am

3. 3 On October 9th, 2007, downtownvenus said:

   I’m sorry, are you expecting a reality TV show to depict actual reality??

   Plus-size models, even at a size 14 are constantly picked on as not representing larger women because they ‘aren’t big enough’. How big would you have them be? Because we all know that women all have different bodies and carry their weight differently, so how are individual models supposed to represent all the possible customer body types to begin with??

   So tell me – visibly chunky with a ton o’ rolls? A certain weight? A certain BMI or BMI category, such as obese? Would you subject a woman to the humiliation of being weighed to prove she’s ‘fat enough’? If you want it for the smaller girls to prove that they are healthy, then should a larger model have to do it to please the braying crowds? Would YOU want to have to do that in order to work at your job?

   If the current thinking is that the media is pushing unrealistic images of women on adolescents and impressionable females, then surely this healthy looking young woman IS big enough. Forget that they are calling her a plus-size and look at her as a considerably better role model than so many of the other contestant. Yes, it is lamentable that Sarah is smaller than previous plus-size contestants, but her smaller size actually gives her a better chance of staying on the show longer, and even winning, as she will fit into more of the clothing and they can’t willfully make her look bad next to the other contestants. The only thing that will let her down is going to be her ability to learn to be a model. And I don’t believe that Tyra will let her lose weight, because then her cause to include larger models loses face.

   Whether you watch ANTM or not, you have to have the hope that viewers and media observers will see Sarah and begin to adopt the attitude that it isn’t necessary to starve to be beautiful. That’s the whole point of her being there in the first place, innit?

   posted on October 9th, 2007 at 4:01 am

4. 4 On October 9th, 2007, Sarah said:

   In the fashion world, Sarah would be considered a “plus-size” model. Typically, “bigger” sizes start at 8, even though that particular size is still sold in the “misses” section of department stores. It’s not abnormal for a size eight girl to model size fourteen clothing. The average runway model is usually a size 2-4 and is usually underweight. Ignoring all that nonsense, Sarah looks great. It’s a shame that more women like her are missing from the top runways.

   posted on October 9th, 2007 at 5:12 am

5. 5 On October 9th, 2007, Rachel said:

   Downtownvenus: :I think you totally misperceived the point of my post. I’m not saying a plus-size actress ought to be the circus fat lady; but if they’re going to label her as a plus-size actress – and yes, they have already typecast her – then, well, she ought to be plus-size. And plus-size is not a size 8.

   That’s the whole point of her being there in the first place, innit?

   Actually, no. I don’t think so. I think Tyra and show producers are taking cues from Dove’s successful Real Beauty campaign and are introducing these so-called plus-size models in a feel-good attempt at drawing in the scores of women who would be better able to see themselves in such a competition. If altruism was their true goal, we’d see a lot more size diversity amongst contestants.

   posted on October 9th, 2007 at 9:57 am

6. 6 On October 9th, 2007, Becky said:

   Whether you watch ANTM or not, you have to have the hope that viewers and media observers will see Sarah and begin to adopt the attitude that it isn’t necessary to starve to be beautiful

   Or they’ll hear that Sarah is “plus” (code word for “fat”) and think: “Oh my God if she’s plus, so am I, I need to get thinner”.

   Plus-size models, even at a size 14 are constantly picked on as not representing larger women because they ‘aren’t big enough’. How big would you have them be?

   Big enough to wear the clothes being modelled. If the range being modelled is a plus size range that goes from size 14 to 26, the women modelling it shouldn’t wear a size 8, 10, or 12. And they shouldn’t just use women who fit the smaller end of the clothing range, they should also have women who fit the size 20 or size 26. Same with regular sizes – if the clothing line ranges from 0-12, the women modelling them shouldn’t only wear 0s and 2s, there should be some who wear 6s or 10s or 12s.

   posted on October 9th, 2007 at 11:59 am

7. 7 On October 9th, 2007, apricotmuffins said:

   gosh. becky, they cant do that. then it would be glaringly obvious that the clothes that fit a size 0 look terrible on a 12. they’d actually have to, you know.. CUT clothes properly.

   other than that, the culture of the fear of fat strikes again. sigh.

   posted on October 9th, 2007 at 12:40 pm

8. 8 On October 9th, 2007, Ashley Brook said:

   I think even if there was a contestant on there that was a size 10, 12, or 14…there would be women going, “Omg I’m that size and she looks huge, I need to lose weight.” I’ve already seen it happen with a few of my friends in commercials. So really, what are they supposed to do? No one is ever going to be happy. People wil always find some excuse to complain.

   posted on October 9th, 2007 at 2:45 pm

9. 9 On October 9th, 2007, Rachel said:

   I think even if there was a contestant on there that was a size 10, 12, or 14…there would be women going, “Omg I’m that size and she looks huge, I need to lose weight.”

   Or, on the flip side, they could look at such women and think “Oh, wow, she looks beautiful and vibrant and much healthier than some of the super-thin, size double-0 models. Maybe I’m not so fat and ugly after all.”

   posted on October 9th, 2007 at 2:56 pm

10. 10 On October 9th, 2007, Ashley Brook said:

    That could be true too. I don’t know. I personally think too many people are pretty much holding TV shows like this responsible for the self esteem of viewers, as if they *have* to have a model who is a size 14 or else they are being terrible because some 15 year old girl might be comparing herself to the models and start thinking bad things about herself. But that’s not their job. Why are people acting like it is??? But if they don’t, they are subject to all this scrutiny.

    posted on October 9th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

11. 11 On October 9th, 2007, Yellowhammer said:

    Wouldn’t it be great though, Ashley Brook, that instead of reinforcing the status quo, if some one in a position to do so were challenging it?

    posted on October 9th, 2007 at 4:05 pm

12. 12 On October 9th, 2007, Jegra said:

    This is absolutely nauseating (seriously, I feel the urge to go throw up after reading about this). I know it’s (un-)reality TV, but are the judges BLIND? or TOTALLY LACKING PERCEPTION/COMMON SENSE!?! How could someone with a BMI of 21.8 be considered plus-size? THis is the most f-ing depressing thing I’ve read in a long time. I hate this f-ing society. If a 5′10 woman is considered plus-size at 150 pounds, I must be obese (what with being 6/1, 170 pounds, and having a BMI of 23 I think). I hate Tyra Banks now. I hate Top Model. I hate our society. *What’s especially sad is that I feel this way and I’m a grown-up (at least chronologically speaking, at age 30). But the main viewers of this stupid show are impressionable 11 and 12 year olds. Don’t Tyra and co. feel any responsibility?

    posted on October 9th, 2007 at 4:49 pm

13. 13 On October 9th, 2007, anniet said:

    I see your point and I agree with the idea that the idea of “plus sized” in modeling is messed up, but I have to correct you on one thing. Plus models ARE size 8. Not size 14. I’ve worked on casting models for magazines and TV shows, and Plus models are nowhere near a size 14. More like a size 8, MAYBE 10.

    In this case, Top Model actually is reflecting the industry.

    I remember needing to cast a model for a swimsuit shoot, and I said, “We need to get a Plus model because I don’t want the girl to look too small.” My boss freaked out and kept saying, “We can’t have a size 16!” over and over again. Finally, I said, “Let me get some comp cards and show you.” I did, and she realized that “plus” in the modeling world does not mean “plus” in real life.

    To put it in perspective: I’m a size two, and I once had a plus-sized model tell me that if I gained 10 pounds, I could be a plus model. That should give you an idea of how small the average model really is.

    posted on October 9th, 2007 at 4:54 pm

14. 14 On October 9th, 2007, Tari said:

    I dunno if it’s so much holding this TV show responsible, as recognizing that this is another brick in the wall. This show, along with all its buddies in print and other media (not to mention the various industries that dovetail with fashion so well), perpetuates an idea that “beauty” looks a certain way, and that self-worth and happiness only come with beauty. If everywhere I look, I see that beauty is limited to x, y, or z (you know, for a hypothetical)…it takes tremendous strength of mind to believe something else.

    I keep being torn when it comes to Tyra and ANTM, though, because while I think they’re not going far enough when it comes to showing the breadth of human beauty…I think they are pushing things a little. And baby steps are better than no steps. In this instance, I am saddened that what’s considered “plus” is smaller than it has been in the past…because that trend leads to less diversity of size.

    posted on October 9th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

15. 15 On October 9th, 2007, Rachel said:

    Ashely: To a degree I think you’re right. Personally, I don’t watch this show or most shows on Primetime and I don’t think we can hold this show or Tyra personally responsible for the self-esteem and body image problems besetting our nation’s women. This show is a reflection of our values, not necessarily a creator of those values.

    On the other hand, television and the media does hold considerable sway over the way we perceive our world. There was a social study done several years ago which revealed that the exclusion of people of size from the media is tantamount to rendering them social pariahs. And remember the Cosby Show? The simple fact of it showing a black family defying racial and demographic boundaries had a significant impact on race relations in America.

    While ANTM doesn’t hold any legal obligation to show that beauty can come in all sizes, as humans, I think show producers have an ethical and moral obligation to do so. You don’t have to watch the show or be an impressionable 15-year-old girl to feel the ramifications of these kinds of actions.

    posted on October 9th, 2007 at 5:06 pm

16. 16 On October 9th, 2007, Rachel said:

    Plus models ARE size 8. Not size 14.

    Anniet: That may be so, but it doesn’t change the fact that plus-size clothing starts at a size 14. I don’t consider size-8 women who model size 14 and above clothing true plus-size models. Just because it’s the industry standard doesn’t make it right. I find it abhorrent that a “normal” weight range is now stigmatized as fat.

    Like Becky said above, if the range of clothing being modeled is a size 14 or larger, the model featuring it should also be a size 14 or larger.

    As one who works in this field… of the plus-sized models out there, what percentage would you put at a size 14 or larger?

    posted on October 9th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

17. 17 On October 9th, 2007, downtownvenus said:

    AnnieT, it’s not one or the other, plus size models are BOTH 8 and 14, and also other sizes inbetween and above 14. I disagree further with you and say that the majority of larger models, when viewed with an international (US, Canada, Germany, UK, France, Australia) perspective, are indeed size 14.

    However, in the same way that there are sizes 0, 2, 4 and 6 to fill varying needs, the plus size sector encompasses sizes 8 and upwards to cater to clients needing lifestyle and non-fashion product images, as well as fashion.

    “Plus-size” is a relatively new term for this sector of the industry. It used to be called ’specialty’ modeling, and was lumped together with the hand and foot models. It changed so that people knew it denoted size, rather than parts. It has only ever meant ‘over a size 8′ to the fashion industry, and that’s pretty much how it’s going to stay for a long while yet.

    posted on October 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pm

18. 18 On October 10th, 2007, clarity said:

    It has only ever meant ‘over a size 8′ to the fashion industry, and that’s pretty much how it’s going to stay for a long while yet.

    Well, I guess that means I’d better hurry up and buy that island where women aren’t made to feel like shit for how they look then.

    This is just so, so nauseating. I’m 5′5″ and a size 5, and I’ve been called fat several times before. So, this shit DOES affect women in our everyday lives, because I can’t imagine where else anybody would get the idea that someone my size could possibly be fat. The complacency surrounding the modeling industry’s hatred for women is really fucking depressing. (And no, I’m not in the modeling or acting industries — these comments have come from random strangers and from friends, and from one boyfriend.)

    One really sad thing to think about as well is how this affects young girls. When I was eight I was invited to be in a pageant, and I begged my mom until she let me go (against her better judgment). As a little girl I was totally brainwashed by media images and Disney movies, and when I didn’t win anything in the pageant, I stood in front of the mirror in our hotel room crying and screaming that I was ugly and stupid and I hated myself. With the pressures on little girls now being even worse than they were then, I can’t imagine what it must be like. I really think I would have killed myself by now (or tried to) if I were a little girl growing up in this culture.

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 2:40 am

19. 19 On October 10th, 2007, downtownvenus said:

    Clarity, what’s the fuss? The other women’s inability to correctly discern your dress size because you are petite is not your problem, it’s theirs. People think I’m smaller than my size because I’m tall. It’s a trick of the eye. You know they are wrong, you know what size you are, so why let them get to you?

    Becky, you said this:
    Or they’ll hear that Sarah is “plus” (code word for “fat”)
    It is?? Who decided that ‘plus’ codes as ‘fat’? Is THIS the real issue here – that so many women have adopted the phrase ‘plus-size’ to euphemize their bodies away from stigma of ‘fat’ that it now cannot mean anything else to them, hence anything ‘plus-size’ that doesn’t obviously mean/look like ‘fat’ (like the photo of the model) must be protested?

    Ladies, plus-size is NOT synonymous with fat and neither is ‘curvy’ for that matter. Fat is the material in your body that gives us all our unique shape. ‘Curvy’ generally means that you’ve got boobs, a visible waist or a prominent booty or a combination of them, and that’s at any size be it big or small. ‘Plus-size’ is a industry-decided term for a size range, be it bodies or clothing and nothing says they have to match each other’s numbers exactly. Don’t head to the island Clarity on that account. A dress size number shouldn’t have the power to do that to your head. Anyhow, the term ‘Full-figured’ makes more sense to me than ‘plus size’ when talking about the shapes or sizes of women’s bodies. Why hasn’t that been more widely adopted? It’s truer than ‘plus size’ anyway.

    I really hope that what I am saying is taken in the right way. We are all SO much more than just our bodies and the size of clothing we wear, and I am discouraged to hear so many women getting so wound up on account of what is, at the core, a misappropriated phrase. ‘Plus size’ should have only meant ‘clothes’ and not been applied to anything else.

    *suffering from inverted comma fatigue*

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 5:26 am

20. 20 On October 10th, 2007, Ashley said:

    I completely agree Becky. No one is calling Sarah fat, overweight, chunky, or anything. It’s obvious that many of women are connecting the term “plus size” with negative connotations. That would kind of be like me ranting about the fact that petite models are under 5′6 and “Why is this 5′5 model considered petite when the average woman is only 5′4?!! Are they saying she’s some sort of midget?! Those assholes!” You know what I mean? They are just terms, that’s all….words that designers need to use in order to know what type of model and clothing they are going to be working with.

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 1:00 pm

21. 21 On October 10th, 2007, Rachel said:

    I don’t think it has anything to do with fat or negative connotations. I think it’s much more straightforward that that. Plus-size clothing denotes clothing which begins at a size 14. Ergo, models who model plus-size clothing ought to be at least a size 14.

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 1:46 pm

22. 22 On October 10th, 2007, G.G. said:

    Not to mention, words and terms in contexts like these are rarely “just” words. If “plus” is just a term, with no value attached, then why does the show itself make such a big deal about including a “plus-sized” model in the first place, as if it’s something they have to defend or apologize for?

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

23. 23 On October 10th, 2007, J.A. said:

    They are just terms, that’s all

    I call shenanigans. Words have meanings. “Plus” connotes “bigger than normal”, and the fashion industry (which, as we all know, loves and respects women so much) has apparently decided that only women size 6 and smaller are normal. Too bad that the vast majority of women would have to diet unhealthily to meet this standard of normal, if they could even do it at all.

    Also, it *is* stupid to have “petite” models who are taller than the average woman. It’s also stupid to have “tall” be the smallest coffee you can get at Starbuck’s. Marketing makes people stupid.

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

24. 24 On October 10th, 2007, Rachel said:

    I agree that “plus-size” is not an innocuous term. By its very definition, it denotes clothing in sizes 14 and larger, which is commonly accepted as being fat. There’s no shame in being fat or plus-size, or perhaps I should say there should be no shame in it. It is what it is.

    The larger issue here is that a woman of an average weight is being considered as plus-size, or in other words, as fat. Not only does it reveal how distorted our collective ideas are about fat, it goes to show a larger, more disturbing trend in how we define and thus stigmatize fatness. The standards defining what is fat and what isn’t continue to be lowered, thus seriously flattening the bell curve.

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 4:08 pm

25. 25 On October 10th, 2007, Jegra said:

    Thank you, Rachel in the above post, for your statement in the 2nd paragraph about what the REAL issue (or “larger issue”) is. What so annoys me about this story is that the model in question looks to be perfect weight. She is not in the least bit fat, not even what one would call “big-boned”, certainly not “chunky”, “chubby”, or any other adjective suggesting that she is slightly overweight. Well, that’s how I see her at least. But apparently THE INDUSTRY sees something I do not. They look at her and see someone who is overweight. (Because, let’s not beat around the bush, the term “Plus Size” is interchangable with “Overweight” in the minds of every American woman; it’s not just innocuous INDUSTRY Insider terminology for someone above size 2 or 8 or -3 or whatever the standard model size is these days.) I am so horrified and disgusted that people can call this woman overweight. She looks perfectly healthy to me. I don’t think you could even “pinch an inch” anywhere on her body. How on earth is a woman supposed to look? Is she only considered a Regular Model if she starves away her a** and breasts; if her manubrium (not just ribs) is prominent; if you can wrap your hand around the protuberances of her collar bones and her ileac crests…? Is this what we as women are willing to accept, so some a_hole designers can sell ridiculously overpriced clothes and glossy magazines can make money? ANTM’s classification of this model as “Plus-Size” is undeniably damaging to every little girl, teenager, and grown woman who watches the show. Yes, Tyra and Company are INDUSTRY professionals, but they are not blind. Brainwashed maybe, but they’re not really, physically blind; nor are they demented or psychotic. They can make a consious choice to set a new, intelligent standard for themselves and the show. They woud do some real good by not adhering to industry standards in this one case and just let this fat girl(sarcasm) with the 21.3 BMI slip through as normal weight instead of tagging her a Plus Sizer.

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

26. 26 On October 10th, 2007, downtownvenus said:

    No, you’re still not getting it. Plus-size models do more than model clothes. They are being made, whether they like it or not, to be the standard bearers for a whole new movement of self-acceptance, this ‘real’ (shudder, we are all real!) women’ ideology, and as such should represent a broad range of sizes over an 8, not just where the plus-size clothes ’start’. Why should women between an 8 and a 14 not be represented somehow?

    Obviously this girl is normal. I dare say she does have fat on her, you just can’t see it in these photos because they are trying to make her look smaller than she is. You can tell from the camera angles. But she is in the category of plus-size for modeling, just as Carre Otis was even though she was a size 8 at the time she was working. You CAN be both normal weight and a plus size model, just as you can be overweight and obese and be a plus-size model; one does not exclude the other. There are many different body types represented by the plus models themselves. Many of them are tall and wide, but when you turn them sideways they look really thin – some aren’t as wide or tall, but turn them sideways and then you see the landscape of boobs, belly and butt.

    As for BMI ‘normal’, well a lot more of us would be if some bright sparks haven’t decided to move the BMI index to lower the number from where it used to be:

    From Wikipedia: “In 1998, the U.S. National Institutes of Health brought U.S. definitions into line with World Health Organization guidelines, lowering the normal/overweight cut-off from BMI 27.8 to BMI 25. This had the effect of redefining approximately 30 million Americans, previously “technically healthy” to “technically overweight”.

    So there you have it. That’s what caused the ‘obesity crisis’. We didn’t all just suddenly start getting fatter, it’s because a group of people decided for us what was ‘normal’ based WHO guidelines, whatever they are and however they apply. I’d love to know what/which weightloss corp/pharma co triggered that decision. I mean, you don’t just sit there thinking, “hmm, I’m bored, what population health index needs fixing today?”

    posted on October 10th, 2007 at 6:09 pm

27. 27 On October 11th, 2007, Rachel said:

    To elaborate on my comment above… instead of seeing this size-8 model as “plus-size,” I suggest that we look at her as the average size (although, like I said the average U.S. woman is a 14, but whatever). Thus those size double-0 models would be perceived as what they are: underweight, and true plus-size would be viewed more proportionately.

    posted on October 11th, 2007 at 9:12 am

28. 28 On October 11th, 2007, Jegra said:

    DowntownVenus: I admit I wrote yesterday’s rambling post with too much emotion clouding my logic. I read the blog, and I was horrified. But I was basically trying to write exactly what Rachel wrote much more coherently in the post directly above this. That is, we should “look at this size-8 model as the average size…thus the size double-0 models would be perceived as…underweight.” I wish! What a wonderful, healthy world it would be if people (even Industry people) would do this.

    Also, I know that BMI has been under a lot of fire from health professionals for not being an accurate measure. So forget her BMI; just judging from the two pictures posted on this blog I do not see this model as being in the slightest bit overweight. In fact, for someone as tall as she is, size 8 is pretty darn small…I mean, she seems to have hips- that is bone structure- not FAT; I do not see any fat on her. And I refuse to watch that insipid show just to try to scrutinize this gal for fat.

    posted on October 11th, 2007 at 10:36 am

29. 29 On October 12th, 2007, Katie said:

    Wow. After reading all these comments, I hardly know what to say. As someone who was only “thin” as a child, I have been bombarded with the “industry” of fashion, magazines, celebrity lifestyles, etc for a long time. I recently lost twenty-five pounds and got down to a size ten or twelve (depending on where I shop). I can’t tell you how good it felt to get out of the “plus” section. The reason for this is that when I hear the terms “plus-size” or “full figured”, I think MORE, BIGGER, etc. If you have something and you add something (plus) you have MORE. If the glass is full, you have MORE. I wish there were other ways to say this, because when I have had shop in plus size stoers, I’ve felt as though people must be watching me go in and knowing I’m big because of that. At my heaviest, just after pregnancy, I was still under 200 pounds. I have never worn bigger than a size 18, and again, that was during pregnancy. On average, for a number of years now, I have been a size 14. In most stores where average women shop, that is the size that plus size starts at. And let me tell you, very few companies I’ve bought clothes for have known how to make clothes for people my size and bigger that accentuate our beauty. They give us tents to wear and add a few bows or a little lace or make it bright red so that it looks like fashion.
    How does this relate to this particular model? It totally relates! I may not be affected by this at this point in my life because I’m confident, have a husband who absolutely loves my curves (after my weight loss, he said I was getting bony!) and I’m not a teenager, but I can guarantee that a lot of young women out there will be very bothered by this designation. If size eight is plus size (even if they are referring to the Industry standards…most girls will not understand this), than what does that say about the thirteen or fourteen year old who is tall for her age and wears a size ten, or the seventeen year old who has been called fat one too many times and wears a size twelve? And how do you think it will make girls feel who ARE plus size. I’m not even talking about those on the line, like I’ve always been, but girls who are size sixteen, eighteen, twenty, and so on. If they were fat before, they’re really fat now, thanks to someone being stupid and giving the designation of plus size to a small, proportionate, lovely girl.
    One thing we have to remember is what the media does to men as well. It was once a sign of beauty, health and fertility to be a larger woman – oh, how I wish sometimes that I lived in those days. There is such a standard set out in movies, television, magazines, etc. for girls under a size ten, that it has become what men expect. It is rare to find a man who truly likes a woman with curves. A lot of men will be happy with their wives after they’ve put on weight and have been married for some time, but not many men would have married that woman if she had weighed that when he met her. Again, I’ve been blessed by having a man who loves my body even when I’m nine months pregnant, but a great deal of men out there just aren’t like that. I knew a whole lot of them when I was in school…guys who would look the other way when I walked by because (I believe) they didn’t want to make eye contact and realize that I was just another girl despite my size.
    I’ve ranted about this in the past to plenty of people, but when I read something like this and the other things that mamavision.com has linked to or posted herself (since that’s how I got here), I feel sick. It is just unbelievably sad that people in the media are allowed to do this.
    My advice: stop watching TV unless it’s PBS, stop reading tabloids (yes, even People magazine is essentially a tabloid), look in the mirror and be happy about who you are even when you know it doesn’t match up to what you see in the media. Spend time with people who appreciate you in this way as well. Easier said than done, I know, but it’s the only way I’ve survived.

    posted on October 12th, 2007 at 6:12 pm

30. 30 On October 14th, 2007, Lilly said:

    (One thing we have to remember is what the media does to men as well. It was once a sign of beauty, health and fertility to be a larger woman – oh, how I wish sometimes that I lived in those days. There is such a standard set out in movies, television, magazines, etc. for girls under a size ten, that it has become what men expect).

    And she IS under a size 10! I don’t know many men who expect that! In fact, in my experience, they appreciate the curves.

    Sarah is NOT plus-sized nor is she the regular MODEL-sized. She is normal, curvy, gorgeous and – REAL. You can’t pinch a oz. of fat bec, she hasn’t it to pinch. She works out, runs circles around most of us, and is busy in the way most of us would like to be. She, whether she wins this show or not, is a wonderful example for our teens (and the rest of us!) who are obsessed w. being thin because we don’t think we are “good enough.” She can model clothes for the rest of us – normality seems to be “norm” everyone is looking to aspire to – can not only appreciate but look at and say, “Hey, THIS is someone to aspire to…and I hope Tyra and the other judges judge her on her looks and personality. She has made it this far and let’s just encourage her for what she is!

    posted on October 14th, 2007 at 10:30 am

31. 31 On November 7th, 2007, Allie said:

    This is the email I just sent to Tyra Banks:

    Dear Tyra,

    I’m sure you will never read this, one of your interns will screen it for you, but on the off chance that this makes it to your desk…

    I just want to tell you that I think that eliminating Sarah from ANTM because she dropped to a healthier weight was not just a mistake, it was a major step backward in the campaign for female empowerment and healthy glamour. You essentially told this woman (and millions of impressionable, insecure young girls across the country) that in order to be beautiful, you either have to be super skinny or overweight. I know you blamed it on the industry, but you are one of the elite few people in the world with the power to make a difference, and CHANGE the industry for the better. Instead, you let it go on, and buy into it. You’re just as guilty as the industry, if not more so.

    The few extra pounds that Sarah was carrying at the beginning of the season were probably enough to cause some fairly serious health problems later on in life, but you want her to keep the weight on to fit the plus-size mold? That’s almost worse than telling a size zero “regular” model that she needs to lose five pounds.

    I’m so disappointed that you didn’t take advantage of this opportunity to make an impact on the industry standard for body types… who knows, maybe you could have even saved a few lives, prevented a few girls from developing bulimia or compulsive eating disorder.

    But you didn’t. You did what the industry told you to do. With great power comes great responsibility, Tyra, and you may have just cost some young girl her life, by communicating to her that it’s not okay to be a medium size.

    On behalf of all the size 8 recovering bulimics out there who almost went crazy trying to be industry-beautiful, we hope you’ll rethink this issue, and give the “normal” girls a chance someday.

    What do you say… should I starve myself or eat three cheeseburgers per day?

    Love,

    Allie
    Houston, TX

    posted on November 7th, 2007 at 10:29 pm

32. 32 On November 7th, 2007, Rachel said:

    Allie – No offense, but are you INSANE?

    Few extra pounds? Overweight? Enough to cause serious health problems? Dropped to a “healthier” weight?

    Are you delusional?

    With a BMI of 21.5 – well beneath 25, which indicates overweight – and a size 8, Sarah is FAR from overweight. In fact, she would be classified as AVERAGE-SIZED. Your perspective on weight seems to be seriously skewed.

    posted on November 7th, 2007 at 10:43 pm

33. 33 On November 8th, 2007, John Zach said:

    I’d kill to be Sarah. I think she has beautiful skin, a beuatiful face and a beautiful personality. Real-size it up gurl!!!! I’m rooting for ya!!!

    posted on November 8th, 2007 at 11:37 am

34. 34 On November 19th, 2007, d said:

    Is Sarah a UK size 8 or a US size 8?

    posted on November 19th, 2007 at 10:16 pm

35. 35 On November 20th, 2007, Rachel said:

    A US size 8, D.

    posted on November 20th, 2007 at 10:09 am

36. 36 On January 9th, 2008, Amanda said:

    I think it’s ridiculous. I’m a size 10-12, and to them that’s fat! I won’t lie, I’ve got some extra baggage per se, but this girl is not a plus size girl! Plus size would be at least 14, at least. I’d wish that the thin models would be there, but I also wish that regular size would be there too!

    What happened to the days when large women was a beautiful thing? Not something to be hated :/

    posted on January 9th, 2008 at 4:48 am

37. 37 On January 21st, 2008, Nada said:

    I am only 13 years old and yet i still feel like i need to lose weight. This woman is a lot skinnier then me and that make me feel like i have to be skinnier then her to be known as skinny. I have tried to be skinny, i was bulimic for 3 months. I know that not all skinny models have eating disorders but some of them do. And then ones that do think that its OK but its not and i learned that the hard way. People may think that just because I’m only 13 I don’t know what I’m talking about, well i do. I stopped being bulimic when my hair started to fall out, don’t let that happen to you. If you want to talk more then contact me at sweetserb94@yahoo.com

    posted on January 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pm

38. 38 On February 21st, 2008, wanda said:

    watching that clip sarah to me looks like cindy crawford in her day back in the 90’s.(size wize)
    in my opinion sarah is beautiful and possibly the perfect size. i’ve watched top model now for a couple of years and i do like the show but i’ve got a sneaky feeling they only have “plus size” girls to be politically correct. we all now that high fashion girls are minus size and that “plus” size girls are normal. when it came to the elimination of sarah i remember the bald guy saying… ” are you plus size or are you not?? where do you fit in to the industry??…”( he really had a puzzled look on his face like he was searching for the meaning to the universe!! everyone nodding in agreement.. she fits in because a:she is stunning b:she photographs beautifully.. what more does a model have to to.. what difference do a few pounds make to a stunning girl like sarah? it shouldn’t make a difference to any of us, as long as we are happy and content that shines on through to the world on the outside:)
    and to the young lady above nada.. my dear it is what you and only you think about yourself that truly matters.. not how you are known as skinny or not skinny. it may not seem like it now but trust me because i have been there in the “battle” of fat n’ thin and the truth as i see it is that either way, your size cannot determine you happiness. there is so much more out there to life passed this media mad world we live in. when i was my thinnest i was believe it or not my unhappiest & i only know this now looking back. it is not all it is cracked up to be so try to be happy with you just as you are now and live day by day and start loving yourself a little more. i hope you are better still.

    posted on February 21st, 2008 at 8:03 pm

39. 39 On February 22nd, 2008, Imogen said:

    These models serve an industry which, in its turn, is supposed to serve us! They are modelling products and ideals that are supposedly aimed at women – surely it lies with all of us to say no, stop buying the designers who promote distorted body images and lobby our governments to legislate against the promotion of unreal and damaging body images.

    We have to take on the power we have as consumers and send a clear message to the fashion industry that we will not put up with it.

    posted on February 22nd, 2008 at 6:28 am

40. 40 On February 22nd, 2008, Lillian said:

    I look at Sarah and see no fat. I don’t even see curves. She is a healthy weight. I think other models look like clothes hangers. I think it’s so wrong to call this slender woman, plus size. It gives the wrong message to our children.

    posted on February 22nd, 2008 at 11:48 am

41. 41 On February 25th, 2008, Rachel said:

    I am a plus size model but guess what, I am exactly the same size as Sarah. Being a plus size model means modeling clothes that are plus size, not that you are plus size. I am a size 8 and I model clothes up to size 18.

    posted on February 25th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

42. 42 On March 4th, 2008, claire said:

    It’s cotour modeling. not commerical. high fashion is a totally different ballgame

    posted on March 4th, 2008 at 1:14 am

43. 43 On April 2nd, 2008, Raven said:

    reading some of the responses kinda hurts my brain. i’m not sure if folks are being intentionally obtuse or if they’re just too enmeshed in ‘the industry.’

    i’m not sure anyone can say it more clearly than rachel has when she said that if the clothing is size 14-26 then the person modeling them should also be size 14-26. it only makes sense. why would i care what a size 22 dress looks like on a size 8 frame? it most likely won’t look anything like that on a size 22. nor would a size 22 model be an appropriate choice to model something in a size 4. it won’t look the same as it would on a size 4 frame…

    posted on April 2nd, 2008 at 4:07 am

44. 44 On April 2nd, 2008, Joy said:

    The perfect proportions of a model have more than just size. I wear a 2-4 and could not be a model. I am only 5′6. Dont forget that these women are very tall. This plus sized girl on the show is a very tall size 8. That looks totally different than a woman of average height. She is skinny.. very… not plus sized at all. Calling her plus sized makes other women around feel FAT.

    posted on April 2nd, 2008 at 7:29 am

45. 45 On April 20th, 2008, Sofie said:

    Society is so fucked up. This girl is completely thin and beautiful. I understand that most girls want to be “thin.” I know I do. I want to be HER thin. I don’t want to be as thin as those anorexic models with no thighs because their legs are all one length. I think all models should be as “thin” as her instead of sticks.

    posted on April 20th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

46. 46 On June 18th, 2008, rose_coloured said:

    I think that my thoughts on the idea that this woman could ever be considered plus-sized have pretty well been covered by others. I find it insulting. I always thought that models were supposed to be size 8-10. But then I’m not form the US, so hearing a size like 0 doesn’t make sense to me, I can’t imagine it. In Australia the lowest we go is about a size 6, and even that has only been introduced recently. It’s pretty damn small in my opinion.
    What I do want to talk about is not the models but the clothes themselves. I was thinking the other day about the fact that I can’t think of any major designer (you know, one that is a household name) that makes plus-sized clothes. And I mean real plus-sized, the ones starting at size 14. I like original, unusual clothing, and I always feel that all I can ever find in my size is kind of boring. Does anyone else share my frustration?

    posted on June 18th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

47. 47 On June 19th, 2008, Gina said:

    WOW! I’m 5′10″ and 168 lbs. I must just be a friggin’ COW then. If she’s considered plus size in a size 8 the rest of us are in trouble. (Sarcasm) GET OUT THE TREADMILLS!

    posted on June 19th, 2008 at 12:21 pm

48. 48 On August 10th, 2008, Celeste said:

    (I call shenanigans. Words have meanings. “Plus” connotes “bigger than normal”,)

    Woah wait a minute..Just because Plus means bigger doesnt mean bigger that NORMAL..bad choice of words..No one looks like that in real life and if you do you get called anorxic. Look there is no perfect in this world. Some thing is wrong with every one..My measurments are 48-26-46 [breasts-waist-butt] and I weight 167 pounds and I am 5′7 so um yeah and I am 16 so reall I am not perfect. my boobs are too big and I am ..lets say over weight and I try everyday to do something to change that and one day I will actually like to look at myself naked until then I am guna love myself because this is the way I guess I am supposed to be for now But love yourself because chances are someone out there loves you for you. :]

    posted on August 10th, 2008 at 8:26 am

49. 49 On March 21st, 2009, Helen said:

    It’s obscene to call that gal “Plus-Sized”. I recall an earlier cycle of ANTM where the plus-sized girl was actually WOMANLY!
    9 or so cycles down the road, the producers have come upon a way to get the plus-sized gal further into the show so women who feel they are not sticks will watch it and root for her – make Plus-size SMALLER! After all, it’s still normal-supermodel-plus, not normal-plus (which I assume most people think the term means and suffer alot of grief over it). I’m assuming this balancing of keeping a larger audience and actually having beautiful ladies in the competition is a constant battle for the selection of finalists and after so many cycles, it’s only natural for the show to cave a little to pressure. I just wish if they didn’t want to include normal/full figured women, then don’t, instead of bringing in size 8s and labelling them the Plus-size. Compromise here is wrong. In fact, the labelling is wrong! The winner should be a winner not because they are of a certain size but because they can pull off good photos and make clothes look good.

    Now that I think about it, the concept of beauty nowadays really disgusts me. Would you sleep with a sack of bones or a soft cuddly person? I know I am the latter and damn glad for it. I’ll bet you the size 0s don’t menstruate and are infertile. To me, that isn’t desirable AT ALL in a woman. Someone once said that the supermodels (very tall and very thin) represent a minority of the population, they are the freaks outside of ‘normality’. It may be convenient and rather defensive in the face of the overwhelming opinion of society voiced by the media, but I’d like to believe that.

    Guess my only points were that we shouldn’t get too howling mad on a show which is approaching its twilit years and bows to established society norms to keep viewer numbers up and that beauty shouldn’t be based on supermodels, who are biologically undesirable. In nature, they would have been eliminated in the “first round”. Oh and fat isn’t ugly (unless it’s unhealthy). Acne, giant moles and bad dye jobs are. And anyone that calls me ugly must be ugly themselves and put me down to make them feel better.

    posted on March 21st, 2009 at 8:19 am

50. 50 On March 30th, 2009, zoe said:

    The issue really come down to this, if you think she is plus size it does not matter , if you think she is of average size it does not matter. The judgement of a womens body needs to be that of her own and her doctor. If she feels unhealthy or unattractive she need to take the steps neccesary to fix those situations. We with daughters need to guide them and make them understand that they need not look to models and actors to define their physical and emotional self-worth. Judegement should come from within if you don’t like someting change it , define it for yourself. These people model ,actors “the industry” is forever changing and as fun and interesting as it may seem children need to understand that it really is meaningless when it comes to defining reality and the people in the real world.

    posted on March 30th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

51. 51 On March 31st, 2009, Helen said:

    Well said! The model industry doesn’t reflect reality, only what a select bunch of people deem “right”. I deem anyone who has self-respect based on more than just physical attributes “right”!

    posted on March 31st, 2009 at 2:47 am

52. 52 On April 15th, 2009, tink said:

    i’m 5′2 and an 8 and weigh only 10 lbs less than her..and i say there is no way in hell she is an eight…defintely smaller than an eight…she has eight inches on me and is way thinner…you can tell me she is taller all you want…that doesn’t factor into measurements which determine size…she is more like a 6 or 4. Whitney was an 8. she would have like a 28-30 inch waist is she was an 8. and the camera adds weight. its just to drama to cause discussions like this.

    posted on April 15th, 2009 at 11:56 am

53. 53 On April 29th, 2009, Nichola said:

    Oh my god has everyone just gone completely insane the fashion industry has completely lossed it why can these people not see that this is an obsession to be as thin as possible and everyone is getting sucked in can no-one see the truth its madness does no-one actually have the brains to see that being that skinny is just not normal or more importantly healthy and should not been seen as being beautiful in any way. Why can’t we just have normal healthy people parading the catwalks and modeling clothes and give out a good positive image for a change not overweight and not underweight just normal and healthy. Don’t we think its time to get back into the real world.

    posted on April 29th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

54. 54 On May 4th, 2009, Mackenzie said:

    Er, regarding “How will it make teenage girls who wear a size 16 feel?” I would say:
    Hopefully it makes them feel like they ought to learn to take care of themselves so that they can live long healthy lives. Heart attack before age 50 just isn’t the way to go.

    posted on May 4th, 2009 at 4:47 am

55. 55 On May 4th, 2009, Mackenzie said:

    Oh and by the way…models are basically just humans pretending to be flesh-colored hangers with arms and hair. The clothes aren’t meant to fit the models. So putting a size 14 dress on a size 8 person makes perfect sense, from that angle.

    posted on May 4th, 2009 at 4:51 am

56. 56 On May 4th, 2009, Rachel said:

    Hopefully it makes them feel like they ought to learn to take care of themselves so that they can live long healthy lives. Heart attack before age 50 just isn’t the way to go.

    And how many teenagers do YOU know who have had a heart attack before the age of 50? Way to buy into the commercially-funded hype, there.

    posted on May 4th, 2009 at 11:08 am

57. 57 On May 4th, 2009, Cara said:

    I think even if there was a contestant on there that was a size 10, 12, or 14…there would be women going, “Omg I’m that size and she looks huge, I need to lose weight.” I’ve already seen it happen with a few of my friends in commercials. So really, what are they supposed to do? No one is ever going to be happy. People wil always find some excuse to complain.

    I think if there were more women of every size on TV, people would think they looked huge at first, but subsequently get used to seeing women of every size as beautiful and vibrant.

    But the big corporations would lose money if people quit hating themselves for stupid reasons, and we can’t have that.

    posted on May 4th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

58. 58 On June 22nd, 2009, Anne Marie said:

    I think this whole debate is ridiculous. I’m personally 5′9 and over the years my size has ranged from a 6 to a 10. So I’ve been on the slightly skinnier side and then been at points where my figure was a little fuller. I also think that thinner girls look better on camera/runway etc. I don’t hold myself to this standard though, and it’s a shame that people do. However, the entertainment industry can’t be completely responsible for making people “feel good” about themselves. If you are unhappy with yourself change. Don’t look for validation that you are “okay” because deep down you aren’t, or you wouldn’t have had these feelings in the first place. I’m a size 10 right now. I don’t like my figure and have started to lose weight again. I much prefer being a 6. I felt healthier, stronger, and made better nutrition decisions. I’m not going to look at models that are a size 12/14 and say, oh I’m ok because they are big too. That is ridiculous. If you are unhappy, change. If you are happy, then seeing a size 0 or 2 girl won’t bother you at all. I have a friend who is 5′11 and a size 0. She is actually very in shape and eats healthy. Her bone structure is a lot different than mine, and even with the same BMI I would always be a size bigger. I don’t compare myself to her. People need to quit blaming the entertainment industries and accept themselves. I don’t like seeing plus size models promoted because it is unhealthy, the same as models who are extremely thin. Complications from obesity kill more people in American each year than anorexia. But I’ve seen tall slender girls who look amazing and are nowhere near anorexic, and those are the girls that belong on the runway and most modeling fashions. They are healthy and STILL a size 0/2. Get over it.

    posted on June 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 pm

59. 59 On June 22nd, 2009, Rachel said:

    Anne Marie: You do realize that the same “plus-size” models you accuse of being unhealthy often wear about the same size you do? I’d also encourage you to do more reading on your so-called “complications from obesity” argument as well. You can start with Linda Bacon’s “Health at Every Size,” Gina Kolata’s “Rethinking Thin,” J. Eric Oliver’s “Fat Politics,” Paul Campos’ “The Obesity Myth,” or any of the numerous published studies by Kathleen Flegel et all. This would, of course, require you to first put down the obesity kool-aid you’re obviously drunk on.

    posted on June 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 pm

60. 60 On June 22nd, 2009, JennyRose said:

    So many thoughts, so much has been said.

    Media presents a lot of fantasy, I understand that. But why is the fantasy so universal? If this fantasy were held by a discreet group it would be considered a fetish but b/c it is valued by so many it is “normal’? The culture at large expects people to live up to this fantasy or as close to it as possible to be acceptable, or at least shop in the mainstream brick and mortar stores.

    Anne Marie – I will try to make my point as gently and respectfully as possible. When you said: “If you are unhappy with yourself change. Don’t look for validation that you are “okay” because deep down you aren’t, or you wouldn’t have had these feelings in the first place. I’m a size 10 right now. I don’t like my figure and have started to lose weight again. I much prefer being a 6. I felt healthier, stronger, and made better nutrition decisions. “

    I don’t know you and I am trying hard not to be condescending but that was my thinking exactly. Except that was really my eating disorder at its worst. I have worked so hard to get away from that kind of thinking and I am still working on it. It is a myth that we can change our bodies and will them into the shape and size we want. Most diets fail but it is the dieter who is made to feel like the failure. These beliefs caused me great amounts of pain. Looking back, I was the least happy at my smallest size. We shouldn’t look at attaining a certain size as a great accomplishment. Achieving a goal or helping other people and living our lives as if we are entitled to be in the world and be happy “as is” are what I now call an accomplishment. Likewise, eating “too much” of the “wrong food” is not bad. It is eating. Nothing bad about eating. Pushing a frail person to ground on the way to rob a liquor store, now that is bad. I am not saying you have an ED, but your comments are very familiar. EDs are only about food and weight on the surface, at the core they are about self-acceptance. Just something to think about.

    Lastly, it irritates me when these models, who are likely all above the age of 18, are called girls. Would anyone refer to a college foot ball player of the same age as a boy? I doubt a male model of 18 would be called a boy.

    posted on June 22nd, 2009 at 4:01 pm

61. 61 On June 27th, 2009, Jasmin said:

    I just read through every comment there, and I know it would be difficult to add something that hasn’t already been discussed but here is my point of view:

    ‘Plus size’ is just a category. It frustrates me that we are all so judgemental and stereotypical. If someone wears a certain size then they are automatically labelled a plus size and like it or not plus size IS associated with ‘fat’, ‘overweight’,'bigger than normal’ etc. Its just the way we are forced to think by the industry, media, ourselves. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are any of the above, just that they are not what is desired in this industry, i.e. a stick.

    Its not just in this area that these problems arise, its like if you went back to school. Sterotypically speaking what do you have? The Nerds, The Tarts, The Jocks, The Stoners… etc. As much as everyone is different it is so easy to just categorise someone based on there looks or actions and loosely label them as some group member. Everyone is different. Whats not to say a Jock smokes weed? whats not to say a Tart is really intelligent?

    Whats not to say a plus sized model is not in fact fat, and is just proportional to a certain size?

    I’m definitely not saying that models should always be stick thin, in fact i dislike that they are as they give a horribly wrong image to every woman striving to be something she isn’t. But, it is going to take a fuck of a lot to get the industry to actually do something different. How many fashion shows have we seen that show women of all shapes and sizes? Like, in the one show a varying size and not just the same blank looking size 0 models with big eyes, pursed lips, long straight dead hair? I can’t stand that all the models seem to look the same. I guess this highlights that they are ‘coathangers’ as it has been said or that this highlights the clothing that the designer wants them to portray. But i have to say clothing is so much more memorable for me when the models have some variety and I am very interested in fashion and I do study it so I see a fair bit.

    I guess its really hard to make oneself completely clear on this issue as it is big and impacts so many different areas.

    In conclusion i guess what I’m trying to say is that so many people have gotten angry because this model was labelled plus size because she is not a stick. this does not mean she is fat, rather that she is in proportion and over the average MODEL size not the average HUMAN size. Yes, models depict a small population percentage. Its just sad that the average normal size woman does not represent a larger part of the fashion percentage.

    But then there is the issue of normal. And the ever, unanswered question of ‘What is normal?’

    posted on June 27th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

62. 62 On July 5th, 2009, Sarah Hartshorne said:

    Hello, my name is Sarah Hartshorne. I was a contestant on Cycle 9 of America’s Next Top Model. My mom discovered this blog when this entry was first posted and has kept me up to date on the comments. I hadn’t gone through and read them until today. I just wanted to chime in to clarify a few things and offer a few miscellaneous thoughts of my own.

    My measurements are: 37-28-40. I wear a size 10, but can fit into an 8 or a 12. I am a plus sized model, although perhaps not a plus sized woman. To be honest, I am a small plus-sized model, and that has worked out to my disadvantage.

    While on ANTM I lost less than five pounds. I am active and healthy. I eat well, exercise regularly. I am regularly pressured to gain weight in order to succeed. I am regularly passed over for jobs because I am not big enough. In terms of dealing the with problems young girls have with body image today this, to me, is like treating a patient with a broken right knee by breaking his left.
    I appreciate the need to create a sense of fantasy and unnattainable beauty in fashion and advertising: the ideal female has drastically changed over time but it has always existed. That said, the division between traditonal fashion models and the plus-sized industry is one based on exclusion. It comes from both sides and it isolates huge populations of girls and women.

    I agree with a lot that has been said, and I disagree with a lot more. But it is the dialogue that is more important. I’m really honored by your comments and presence in this conversation. So, thank you.
    http://www.Twitter.com/sarahhartshorne

    posted on July 5th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

63. 63 On February 3rd, 2010, closetpuritan said:

    Who knows if anyone will see this, but other people commented long after this was posted so I guess I will too.

    I agree that a lot of girls and women watching will be thinking something along the lines of, “Well, if SHE’S plus-sized, then I must be a freak!” I think it’s naive to say, “But they should know that the industry standard is to have women model plus-size clothing who aren’t actually plus size!” Not only will most viewers not know that, but the ones who are least likely to know it are the same ones who are the most likely to be hurt by it–their youngest viewers.

    re: tink insisting that there’s “no way in hell” that Sarah Hartshorne is an 8–well, I guess according to Sarah herself she’s actually a 10, although she can wear an 8. But I’m not too impressed with people who think they can tell someone’s size just by looking. tink mentions a 28-30″ waist corresponding to an 8–well, Sarah says that she has a 28″ waist. Meanwhile, I have a 30″ waist, and I usually wear a 14. So even when you have a waist measurement, that alone doesn’t tell you too much about what size someone is.

    posted on February 3rd, 2010 at 2:36 pm

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