Opinions, please

10th September 2007

As some of you may remember, my husband and I eloped, so to speak, a month ago. We’re planning an informal reception Saturday for our family and friends so that they too can celebrate our commitment.

Both the husband and I are vegetarian – he for health reasons, and I because of moral reasons (I’m Buddhist). I’ve planned an all-vegetarian dinner for our reception and hope to convince our meat-eating families that vegetarianism consists of much more than rabbit food.

Both my mother and brother, who are big-time meat-eaters, are upset at this. In the words of my mother, I am “forcing everyone to eat vegetarian, too.” She thinks I ought to include some meat-based dishes, which I disagree with. My husband and I are footing the bill, both for the wedding and reception, and I don’t think I should be expected to purchase something which I vehemently disagree with and goes against my religion. My mother has also suggested that she will bring her own meat-based dish to share with our guests, which I am opposed to.

This is our day and I think she ought to respect our beliefs. What do you think?

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This entry was posted on Monday, September 10th, 2007 at 5:02 pm and is filed under Personal, Vegetarianism. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

1 On September 10th, 2007, Deirdre

said:

I think the hostess should be allowed to pick her own menu. Carnivore though I am, if I were having a reception, I’d include some vegetarian dishes as a courtesy to my vegetarian guests. However, the fact that you are vegetarian for religious reasons puts a different spin on it. Would your mother expect Jews to serve pork just because some of the guests might like it? Basically, your mother is not taking your religious beliefs seriously. You may have to ban her from the reception. Only you can know if you’re prepared to go that far in defense of your religion.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 6:13 pm

2 On September 10th, 2007, Kelly

You’re right. That’s all there is to it. You’re right because it’s your event, you’re paying, and you are not force feeding anyone anything. Does your mother eat so much meat that she never eats any of the things you’ll be serving? I can understand not wanting to eat a dinner of tofu and wheat grass juice, (still, that’s my problem, not the host’s) but I assume you are serving things that most people eat anyway (salad, pasta, whatever). Also, it is rude not to consider your guest’s tastes when planning a function where you will expect them to eat your food, (I don’t think that’s the case here, I am sure you have put a lot of thought into your menu) but it is totally, out of the question, unbelievably rude to bring an unwanted dish that you would rather eat to the party, and then offer to share it with others.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

3 On September 10th, 2007, PlainJane

You should be able to serve whatever you choose. When I got married we didn’t have any alcohol. It is against our religion to drink alcohol, and although traditional to some, it wasn’t going to be served at my wedding. In fact, I think everyone EXPECTED that there wouldn’t be any because they knew of our beliefs.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 6:28 pm

4 On September 10th, 2007, Toni

I think it’s 100% up to you. It’s your day and you’re paying the bill. I’ve been to a million weddings where the food wasn’t what I would have chosen, but it made the bride/groom happy.

I’ve been to weddings of all ethnicities, and they served their culture’s food, or not, as they chose. Should they have served hot dish and hamburgers just because there were going to be some white Minnesotan’s there? Or should I serve persian food at my parties since many of my friends are persian, even though I am not? That’s just silly.

A grown adult, especially one old enough to have a grown daughter, should have enough class and politeness to eat what she’s served, or eat before she comes to the event if she doesn’t think she’ll like the food. Does she go over to her friends houses for meals and throw a fit if they don’t cook something exactly to her liking?

I’m not a vegetarian, though many people I know are, and I’m ALWAYS able to find vegetarian foods that make me happy. In fact, I often end up eating that way without even being intentional about it. Does your mom realize the wide variety of food that could be served where people won’t even realize they’re missing the meat? Salads, pastas, lots of “finger food”, soups, deserts, etc. Maybe she just needs a little education?

I think you’re totally in the right to be doing what makes you happy on a day like this.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 6:31 pm

5 On September 10th, 2007, Maggie

I just got married a few months ago, with an all-vegan reception, so I can relate.

Bottom line - unless Mom’s footing the bill, you get to plan the menu (and everything else). You’re talking about a moral belief that is important to you versus other people’s personal tastes - when they get married, they can have what they want, but for your reception it’s about what you want.

I understand that different people prefer different kinds of food, but I will never comprehend how people can be so flesh-dependent that they’re terrified by the idea of a single meal without a dead animal in it.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

6 On September 10th, 2007, Lindsay

Your wedding, and all parts of it (including the reception) are a celebration of you and your husband - a recognition of the choice you have made, a gathering to show love and support for you and your union. If this were a regular ol’ party, that’d be something different. But it’s not.

If she can’t respect you, your beliefs and your wishes, then she can find something else to do that day. A bit cold, perhaps, but i’m of the opinion that relation does not equal obligation. If she feels that she won’t be satisfied by the food you plan on having, then the polite thing to do would be to STFU, play nice, and have something else before and/or after to sate her appetite.

Did she raise you to be all demandy-pants when you were a guest at someone else’s house? I’m guessing not - therefore, she needs to hushface and not ruin your special day. People like that make me mad.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

7 On September 10th, 2007, Lindsay

P.S.: The matter of who’s paying the bill is, IMHO, completely irrelevant. If she were paying for it and insisting on providing meat-based foods (against your religious beliefs), then not only is she being disrespectful, she’s being manipulative.

(And for anyone curious, i am an omnivore - so this is not a zomg-meat-bad sort of thing, it’s a “how in the name of sweet cheeses can any mother be this disrespectful to her own child?” sort of thing.)

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

8 On September 10th, 2007, Rachel

Thanks for the affirmations, folks. I always love proving my mother wrong.

The dishes I chose will appeal to most palates, I think. I have some rice dishes, some pasta, and lots of appetizers with breads, crackers, pita and spreads and hummus. We asked that the reception be non-alcoholic, too, and she doesn’t seem to be griping about that.

Whenever our families have get togethers, it’s always meat-based and we usually bring our own veggie burgers or whatnot. Since I am hosting this, this is my opportunity to show my family that vegetarian food can be delicious. I really have no clue why people think meat ought to form the bulk of the meal - there are so many veggies possibilities compared to meat dishes.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

9 On September 10th, 2007, Stef

For the record, I’m an omnivore and a Buddhist of some stripe or another.

I learned the hard way that it’s best to give parents a prior say in one’s wedding plans—even the parts one thinks parents won’t care about and even the parts that Miss Manners is adamant should work a certain way. I guess you’re learning this the hard way too. I’m sorry to hear that, and I hope it somehow works out that everyone is happy with the reception.

I think your mother and brother are being pretty silly. It’s not like an omnivore is going to experience health problems by eating one vegetarian meal. Presumably your vegetarian meal is not going to come with a sermon about how meat is Teh Evil.

But on the other hand, I don’t think a wedding/reception is “your day.” “Your day” was the day you eloped. The wedding reception is also your parents’ day and your guests’ day. I think you have a right to serve a vegetarian meal, but a wedding isn’t entirely about rights, it’s also about family and community and compromise and the blending of cultures and traditions.

I guess I think the best move would be a conversation with your meat-eating relatives about this that tries to reach some kind of compromise where everyone (including you) ends up feeling heard rather than dismissed and stomped on. Perhaps there is something else about the wedding reception that your mother would like to control, and maybe if she had that, she wouldn’t insist on bringing meat.

Good luck.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

10 On September 10th, 2007, Deirdre

I think Stef may be on to something about your mother’s feelings not really being about the meat. She may be feeling a loss of control or influence. She may resent you having eloped. Try to find out what is really going on. Maybe you can come to some kind of resolution that does not involve violating your religious beliefs.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 8:47 pm

11 On September 10th, 2007, Charlynn

It’s your day. You’re buying. She can either eat what you’re serving or eat something before/after. She doesn’t have to like what you’re serving.

When my husband and I go over to his parents’ house for dinner, I know that the main dish is going to be meat. They do not make a vegetarian-based alternative for me (cooking me a veggie burger when they eat hamburgers, for example), nor do I expect them to. I respect their food choices and they respect my choice not to eat the meat-based food. If I’m still hungry after we eat dinner, I eat something else when we come home.

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

12 On September 10th, 2007, holls

YOU are absolutely right. However, don’t you think you’ll have a better day if you are able to let this go?
Your mother, for whatever reason, is not prepered to be gracious.
Don’t you think you should show her how it’s done?

posted on September 10th, 2007 at 10:20 pm

13 On September 11th, 2007, Rachel

Holls - I don’t think compromising my religious and moral belief system is being gracious - it’s more like blasphemy.

I don’t think my mother resents the fact that we eloped. She did attend, after all, with Brandon’s mom and my sister. And she encouraged us to do things our way in the first place.

I think the basic fact of the matter is that my mother cannot fathom that non-violence is a core tenant that I hold to be of utmost importance in the way I live my life. My husband ate vegetarian before we met and ate meat only sparingly, but after we met he went total vegetarian out of respect for me. I never asked him to, he just did. My mom though thinks I am “forcing” him to be meat-free, which I am not.

Boiled down, my mom doesn’t understand how important a vegetarian lifestyle is to me, and he does. She doesn’t understand Buddhism and doesn’t want to understand it. Oh, she’s come a long way - she no longer thinks I am a heathen in the midst of a fad - but she is still a very close-minded person, who was raised Christian and can’t imagine any other point of view.

I spoke with her again tonight, and told her what I was thinking for the menu. She seemed pretty excited about it and with helping me prepare everything, and didn’t mention one iota about meat. So, I think all is well.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 12:07 am

14 On September 11th, 2007, twilightriver

It’s your money, your party, your beliefs, etc.

Mommy is just going to have to behave like an adult and respect your space, your decisions, and your menu. Tell her that temper tantrums are unbecoming ,if you have to.

In your comments, it sounds like she might be beginning to understand that this is about sharing something special with loved ones and not about food preferences. Good job standing your ground. If she does try to smuggle meat into the event, you can confiscate it and let her know that she can have it back afterwards.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 1:55 am

15 On September 11th, 2007, An Only Mouse

Rachel: It is a core ‘tenet’ not a core ‘tenant’.

In all these views, I see a thread which says that many of your readers need to resolve their issues with their OWN mothers before advising them. Much as it appears ‘manipulative’ or ‘controlling’ as some suggest that your mother wants something meat-based at the reception, her interactions with her are framed in a larger context of your whole relationship with her. By asking random readers, you lay your mother open to a lot of unwarranted criticism where many readers appear to be projecting things that THEY cannot say to their mothers so they want to say to yours through you. This is like washing your dirty linen in public and as a regular lurker, I am very disappointed.

If I were you, I would explore a bit more behind why she is insistent. Discuss the menu with her and ask her for suggestions. INVOLVE her a bit more. I know it sounds old-fashioned but trust me, as someone, who has lived with a dead mother’s memories since age 4, I know you will regret pettiness when she is gone.

Also Buddhism really does not have moral objections to meat. I am a fully converted practitioner and I attend a large community here where many are not vegetarians. Even the Dalai Lama says meat is ok. May be you are being a bit inflexible? And your ‘control through food’ streak is being hyper-active?

Whatever it is, discuss and sort with your mom. Do not ask strangers like us for advice. And for heaven’s sake do not take advice from these readers who are probably gloating in schadenfreude that a woman like you - otherwise sane and in-control - is asking them for advice.

Good luck and remember fighting with parents is not worth it in the end.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 2:07 am

16 On September 11th, 2007, Jackie

I think that today, there is much more variety in soy imitation products. So it’s very easy to make a meal that is “disguised” as a meat meal, but is actually not. I’m only using meat as an example, because it’s the best example I can think of. There’s cheese too, and probaly other soy imitation products I can’t think of.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 6:08 am

17 On September 11th, 2007, WeightlessOne

I’m not a vegetarian, but I love vegetarian foods. I think you should be able to serve whatever you want at your reception. Just be careful with things like seitan. I discovered the hard way that many people, myself included, can’t handle that much wheat gluten. Gimme a salad or nummy butternut squash soup and I’m a happy camper and if it is yummy then the menu won’t phase your guests (okay, aside from mom).

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 9:55 am

18 On September 11th, 2007, Rachel

An Only Mouse: Thanks so much for the lesson in semantics. Often times my mind travels at an unparalleled pace with my fingers.

I disagree re: Buddhism and meat-eating. The Dalai Lama actually followed a strict vegetarian diet until he was advised by his doctors, for medical reasons, to eat meat. While he has eaten meat in moderation ever since, he has repeatedly acknowledged that a vegetarian diet is representative of compassion and contributes to the cessation of the suffering of all living beings.

In fact, the Buddha himself was not vegetarian; he usually accepted alms, which included meat-based meals. It was also not his style to be a spiritual autocrat and dictate a vegetarian life for his monks, who often depended on alms, as well.

But that’s what I like about Buddhism - it allows people to follow their own paths, and not one preordained by others. I happen to take Buddhism’s first precept - a reverence for life - to mean all life, not just life I don’t find tasty. This isn’t just out of spiritual beliefs; I happen to find the process of killing animals to feed ourselves quite abhorrent, as well as environmentally devastating. Others may have different views. Sabbe satta bhavantu sukhitatta.

I do think the situation was misconstrued by folks here that my mother and I are actively fighting. We never were. I probably should have made that clearer. I am a very non-confrontational person and while I stand my ground, I do so without yelling or angry words.

And sorry you’re so disappointed, but this is my own personal forum.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 9:56 am

19 On September 11th, 2007, Jeanne

Your day.
Your money.
Your call.

Personally, if it was me in your place, I would tell my mom, “Listen, this is a celebration of my love and commitment to my husband, not about food. I’m not stopping someone from leaving our party and slicing open a cow, however this is my party and there will not be meat at it. Please respect my beliefs as I respect yours.”

Good luck!

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 10:08 am

20 On September 11th, 2007, An Only Mouse

“And sorry you’re so disappointed, but this is my own personal forum.”

I know that, of course.

I find it interesting to see how in some cultures, it is acceptable to discuss such private matters with total strangers. But then again US is a therapy-bound culture. On a blog, at least you do not have to pay the stranger to listen.

Good bye.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 1:20 pm

21 On September 11th, 2007, Sarah

I’m glad things seem to be settling out well and I hope you, your family, and all your guests have a wonderful time celebrating such a happy event together.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 1:33 pm

22 On September 11th, 2007, Kate217

First of all, felicitations on your marriage. I hope that you both will be very happy.

Second, I’m glad that your mother seems to be coming around. If she comes back to the subject, however, you might want to point out that she’d hardly want to serve human flesh at a function to accomodate cannibals and that, to you, the two situations are comparable. Yes, it’s shocking, but it might make her think.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

23 On September 11th, 2007, Meowser

I’m down with the “your money, your menu” call. Why it should matter that much to her, when it’s one freakin’ meal, I fail to understand. Unless she (or someone else) has a note from her doctor stating that she must have animal products at every meal — in which case she could take some cheese or beef jerky in her purse — then, WTF? I agree with those who say this is an issue “beyond meat” and more about control.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 2:13 pm

24 On September 11th, 2007, lavalady

You pay, you pick. Your mother and brother won’t suffer from one meatless meal. Tell ‘em the internet said to deal with it!

Oh, and if she brings meat…well, I bet you are nicer than me. I’d have it tossed out on principal. Hopefully she’ll realize that it’s one meal out of her entire life and let it go. I’d wager she’s feeling worried that someone else in the family will be as uncomfortable about a meatless dish as she is, and doesn’t want to be embarrassed. That doesn’t’ make it any more your concern tho.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 4:43 pm

25 On September 11th, 2007, Michelle

Ultimately it’s up to you.

However, I had some people at my wedding reception who were vegetarians (I’m a meat eater, though I do enjoy vegetarian fare from time to time and am well aware that it’s more than just rabbit food!) and I thought it would be bad form to invite them and not provide appropriate food for them, even though we were paying for it. So we added two meatless dishes to the list (in addition to the usual salads, etc).

In a way, I do wonder if the reverse should also be true - if you invite a
“carnivore” to your party, should you not also be willing to provide at least SOMETHING with meat? Interesting question.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 5:02 pm

26 On September 11th, 2007, Michelle

ps I love how everyone here assumes that your mother should just pack beef jerky or cheese in her purse if she wants meat so badly. I wonder how my vegetarian friends would have reacted if I’d have told them they should pack their own tofu to bring to my wedding because “I’m paying for the food, dammit, and it’s my day!”

True that a lot of meat lovers should learn to enjoy the culinary delights of well-made vegetarian fare, but using that sort of attitude to justify it IS a little uncalled for, to say the least.

And be aware that some folks do suffer from wheat and soy allergies. Conventional vegetarianism (let alone veganism) literally isn’t an option for some folks.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

27 On September 11th, 2007, Rachel

In a way, I do wonder if the reverse should also be true - if you invite a
“carnivore” to your party, should you not also be willing to provide at least SOMETHING with meat? Interesting question.

Indeed an interesting question Michelle, but here’s the difference. While meat-eaters can eat and even enjoy vegetarian dishes, vegetarians cannot eat meat-based ones. Barring food allergies, there’s no prohibition for anyone in eating vegetarian meals, even meat-eaters. Whereas if you served a meat-based dish, you’re isolating an entire group of people. Vegetarian dishes are a win-win situation for all kinds of diets. It’s getting past this mental block of “meat with two sides” diet mentality Americans have that is the problem.

posted on September 11th, 2007 at 5:25 pm

28 On September 15th, 2007, Carolyn

It’s

posted on September 15th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

29 On September 15th, 2007, Carolyn

Eh, my computer messed up. Anyway, it’s YOUR day, YOUR wallet. I don’t understand why people can’t go meatless for ONE meal to respect your religious beliefs!

posted on September 15th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

30 On September 25th, 2007, Cee

Because I couldn’t resist, in response to Carolyn’s “It’s”…

Monty Python’s Flying Circus! Da da, dadadada, da, dadadada da, da da, da da…

Ahem. And in response to the actual post, you’re paying, it’s your party, vegetarian it is.

posted on September 25th, 2007 at 9:42 pm

31 On October 12th, 2007, Katie

It’s already been done, I’m sure, but I’m hoping you stuck to your guns. I would have loved to do vegetarian for my wedding reception, but in this case, it was my meat-loving dad who was footing the bill, so we ended up with chicken wings and meatballs, but oh, well.

posted on October 12th, 2007 at 6:40 pm